{"id":103333,"date":"2013-04-03T11:19:08","date_gmt":"2013-04-03T15:19:08","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/?p=103333"},"modified":"2013-04-03T11:30:46","modified_gmt":"2013-04-03T15:30:46","slug":"wwrod-so-is-atheism-a-belief-system-or-not","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/2013\/04\/wwrod-so-is-atheism-a-belief-system-or-not\/","title":{"rendered":"WWROD: So is atheism a belief system or not?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

It\u2019s time for another GetReligion visit to the online domain of the Ridgewood Religion Guy<\/a>, as in the weblog of former Time<\/em> and Associated Press religion-beat maestro Richard Ostling<\/a>.<\/p>\n

This time around, he\u2019s digging into a classic question from the church-state wars of the past few decades, care of a reader named Tyler<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Should atheism be viewed as a religion? Do atheists view themselves as being part of a religious group?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The minute I read that question I thought of a scene in one of my all-time favorite episodes of \u201cNorthern Exposure,\u201d called \u201cSeoul Mates<\/a> (check out the \u201cmay your dog talk<\/a>\u201d clip).\u201d <\/p>\n

That was the Christmas story in year three that focused on the cultural and personal roots of faith<\/a>. At one point, the town\u2019s crusty old storekeeper informs the Jewish Dr. Joel Fleischman that, while everyone else in town seems to really dig the Native American Raven pageant at Christmas time, she remains an atheist (though she retains a belief in a female divine force of some kind that has never taken human form). The doctor replies, as I recall the quote: I\u2019ve always admired people who are atheists. I think it takes a lot of faith.<\/p>\n

There\u2019s a similar line, if I recall, in \u201cHannah and Her Sisters,\u201d the part where the Woody Allen character faces his own mortality and begins to doubt his doubts. Right?<\/p>\n

Anyway, Ostling replies that the key question is:<\/p>\n

\u2026 What is \u201creligion\u201d? The American College Dictionary says it\u2019s \u201cthe quest for the values of the ideal life, involving three phases: the ideal, the practices for attaining the values of the ideal, and the theology or worldview relating the quest to the environing universe.\u201d Say what? No personal Deity there, and no not-quite-personal Supreme Being, either. Under that understanding, a devout atheist can be \u201creligious\u201d in the sense of holding convictions about moral duties, ultimate reality in the cosmos, and humanity\u2019s involvement with all that. \u2026 <\/p>\n

Atheists themselves don\u2019t buy it, judging from a characteristic put-down posted on a movement Website: \u201cFor some strange reason, many people keep getting the idea that atheism is itself some sort of religion. \u2026 Maybe it is due to some persistent misunderstanding of what atheism is. And maybe they just don\u2019t care that what they are saying really doesn\u2019t make any sense.\u201d <\/p>\n

The Associated Press Stylebook advises, \u201cin general, do not use fundamentalist unless a group applies the word to itself.\u201d Following that valid principle with atheists, the apparent answers to Tyler are no, and no.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

But there are some interesting complications, notes Ostling.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

For example, what does one do with the those \u201ccreepily \u2018religious\u2019 \u2026 shrines that display the embalmed corpses of totalitarian atheists like Lenin, Mao, Ho, North Korea\u2019s first two Kims, and (temporarily) Stalin\u201d? Are these, in fact, secular shrines that contain atheistic relics with emotional power for followers?<\/p>\n

Also, where is the line between an ordinary atheist and an atheist who is active in a Unitarian Universalist congregation or, perhaps, a Reform Jewish temple? What is the tax status of an atheist minister ordained through the Universal Life Church\u2019s \u201cInstant Online Ordination<\/a>\u201d option, which is open to all no matter their beliefs or lack of same?<\/p>\n

More from the Religion Guy:<\/p>\n

The Unitarian Universalist Association\u2019s principles state that it draws from \u201creligions\u201d and teachings that \u201ccall us to respond to God\u2019s love.\u201d But note that adherents don\u2019t need to actually believe in any god. The denomination says \u201catheists and agnostics are welcome in Unitarian Universalism and can find a welcoming, supportive faith community\u201d and a godless \u201cspiritual path.\u201d Leaders of Ethical Culture (a.k.a. Ethical Humanism) depict it as \u201ca religion\u201d that likewise involves \u201cfaith\u201d but do not mention any sort of deity. Scientology, which refers to a \u201cSupreme Being\u201d as the vaguely impersonal \u201curge toward existence as infinity,\u201d won a long campaign for government tax exemption as a \u201creligion\u201d rather than a secular therapy business.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

And what happened when a question related to this reached the U.S. Supreme Court?<\/p>\n

Read it all.<\/a><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

It\u2019s time for another GetReligion visit to the online domain of the Ridgewood Religion Guy, as in the weblog of former Time and Associated Press religion-beat maestro Richard Ostling. This time around, he\u2019s digging into a classic question from the church-state wars of the past few decades, care of a reader named Tyler: Should atheism […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":610,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[69,6,12,5],"tags":[1304,608,1305,1303],"class_list":["post-103333","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-atheists","category-godbeat","category-religion","category-webtech","tag-northern-exposure","tag-richard-ostling","tag-woody-allen","tag-worldviews"],"yoast_head":"\nWWROD: So is atheism a belief system or not?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"It's time for another GetReligion visit to the online domain of the Ridgewood Religion Guy, as in the weblog of former Time and Associated Press\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/2013\/04\/wwrod-so-is-atheism-a-belief-system-or-not\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"WWROD: So is atheism a belief system or not?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"It's time for another GetReligion visit to the online domain of the Ridgewood Religion Guy, as in the weblog of former Time and Associated Press\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/2013\/04\/wwrod-so-is-atheism-a-belief-system-or-not\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"GetReligion\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2013-04-03T15:19:08+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2013-04-03T15:30:46+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/files\/2013\/04\/atheism2.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"tmatt\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"tmatt\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/2013\/04\/wwrod-so-is-atheism-a-belief-system-or-not\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/2013\/04\/wwrod-so-is-atheism-a-belief-system-or-not\/\",\"name\":\"WWROD: So is atheism a belief system or not?\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2013-04-03T15:19:08+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-04-03T15:30:46+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/#\/schema\/person\/76ce2260a572ff41a28fb285de9350f1\"},\"description\":\"It's time for another GetReligion visit to the online domain of the Ridgewood Religion Guy, as in the weblog of former Time and Associated Press\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/2013\/04\/wwrod-so-is-atheism-a-belief-system-or-not\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/2013\/04\/wwrod-so-is-atheism-a-belief-system-or-not\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/2013\/04\/wwrod-so-is-atheism-a-belief-system-or-not\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"WWROD: So is atheism a belief system or not?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/getreligion\/\",\"name\":\"GetReligion\",\"description\":\""The press . . . just doesn't get religion." - 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