{"id":828,"date":"2016-08-19T12:07:48","date_gmt":"2016-08-19T02:07:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/hearthwitchdownunder\/?p=828"},"modified":"2018-01-24T13:32:40","modified_gmt":"2018-01-24T03:32:40","slug":"pagans-really-are-an-entitled-bunch","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/hearthwitchdownunder\/2016\/08\/pagans-really-are-an-entitled-bunch.html","title":{"rendered":"Pagans Really Are an Entitled Bunch"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

So, I came across a post recently, over on Witches and Pagans<\/a>, that was seemingly well-intentioned, even if its title was slightly controversial in its seeming sexism.\u00a0 It asked a simple question \u2013 Can Pagan women, in good conscience, go to Uluru?<\/p>\n

\"Uluru
Uluru. Public domain, via wikipedia commons.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Being Australian, I of course had to go take a look at this piece.\u00a0 I was curious and had a few questions based on the title alone.\u00a0 Was it written by an Aussie? Was it written by a woman? Was it written by an Aboriginal? Was it going to discuss the problems of Pagan men going to Uluru?\u00a0 Among other things.\u00a0 The answers are all the same, No.\u00a0 It was none of those things.<\/p>\n

Steven Posch presents us with what seems like a post about respecting another culture.\u00a0 He speaks of Uluru and some of its importance and history to the First Nations of Australia.\u00a0 Accordingly, Aboriginal women are not allowed to go to Uluru, it is a mens only sacred space.<\/p>\n

The good part? Steven doesn\u2019t presume to answer for women \u2013 he states quite plainly, this is something only Aussie Pagan women can answer.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He also states that he personally prefers to abide by the rules of the culture he is in at the moment, so if he is with Native Americans, he follows their rules.\u00a0 That\u2019s great.\u00a0 He also expects that if they come into his space, they should be able to follow his rules \u2013 again, that\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n

The bad part?\u00a0 He asks only if Pagan women can go to Uluru, in good conscience.\u00a0 He doesn\u2019t speak about Pagan men at all.<\/p>\n

You think I am going to cry sexism, don\u2019t you? But I am not actually.\u00a0 I am going to cry Pagan Entitlement.<\/p>\n

This is an example of a Pagan who seems to think that just because they follow a religion that is not Abrahamic, then they of course are entitled to the sacred spaces of all peoples, everywhere, that are also not Abrahamic.\u00a0 So, Native American sacred spaces are also Pagan spaces.\u00a0 Uluru, a sacred space for Australian Aboriginals is also a sacred space for Pagans.<\/p>\n

Because don\u2019t you know, we are all one and the same, fighting off the evils and indoctrinations of Christianity and its ilk.<\/p>\n

You see the answer to Stevens question is very, very simple.\u00a0 No.\u00a0 Pagan women cannot, in good conscience, go to Uluru.\u00a0 But neither can Pagan men.<\/p>\n

Uluru is not a Pagan space, it is not sacred to Pagans.\u00a0 I mean, I guess we could say it is sacred to everyone, but it is not Pagan and we have no right there.\u00a0 Uluru is an Aboriginal sacred space, mens only or not, it is Aboriginal.\u00a0 Only.\u00a0 It is sacred to them, and guess what? They don\u2019t want us there!<\/a>\u00a0 They don\u2019t want us traipsing all over their sacred rock, leaving behind our offerings that do not belong, that only mess the place up.\u00a0 Non-Aboriginals are not welcome there without specific invitation.<\/p>\n

Now, if some Aboriginal elders, who have the right to do so, invite a Pagan to go to Uluru then yes they can, male or female, go there in good conscience. But if you are not invited, and you go there \u2013 force your way there against their clearly stated wishes, then your conscience should not be clean.<\/p>\n

Now Steven states he likes to respect the rules of the cultures he is interacting with at the time, which seems to suggest that he would not go to Uluru, because he is not allowed to.\u00a0 While this may indeed be true, one must wonder why he decided to research Uluru, ask if Pagan women can go there but never think to ask if Pagan men can go there either.\u00a0 Ah the irony of discussing respecting other cultures and their sacred spaces, while completely ignoring the inherent disrespect in thinking Pagans are entitled to that other cultures sacred space in the first place.<\/p>\n

I can see how this happens, of course.\u00a0 Paganism is full of an attraction to sacred spaces that belong to religions and cultures long dead (though many are being revived in some way).\u00a0 We get used to this feeling that all of these ancient places are ours, not the Christians, but ours.\u00a0 Still, I can\u2019t see that as any excuse to ignore the fact that the Aboriginal culture is not completely dead, they are alive, they are fighting to keep their ways intact, they are being erased on a daily basis<\/a>.\u00a0 And Pagans pretending we have some shared culture with the Aboriginals, it just erases them even more.<\/p>\n

The Aboriginal religions are, technically, little-p pagan.\u00a0 But they aren\u2019t big-P Pagan, they are not under our umbrella or tent or whatever.\u00a0 We have no claim on them.\u00a0 Not even those of us who live in Australia have a claim on them.\u00a0 Not even someone like me, who is Aboriginal via\u00a0several ancestral lines, but not through culture or religion.<\/p>\n

We have no claim to them, and when we seek to place a claim on them and their spaces and beliefs, we are complicit in their erasure.\u00a0 They become just another of those quirky Pagan religions that no one takes seriously.<\/p>\n

So here is a tip, if you are going to discuss a living religion or culture, that is not actually Pagan, if you are going to ask if Pagan women can go to another cultures sacred space.\u00a0 Try asking first if Pagan People<\/em> can go there at all.\u00a0 But if your only intention is to discuss sex and gender, then ask the question correctly \u2013 Can Aboriginal women in good conscience go to Uluru?<\/p>\n

Ah.\u00a0 But we can\u2019t do that can we? We have no right to speak for Aboriginal women. \u00a0Since\u00a0that is true, then maybe we\u00a0shouldn\u2019t be\u00a0asking the question at all.<\/p>\n

\"Uluru
Uluru, aerial view. Public domain, via wikipedia commons.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Ah the irony of discussing respecting other cultures and their sacred spaces, while completely ignoring the inherent disrespect in thinking Pagans are entitled to that other cultures sacred space in the first place.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2764,"featured_media":829,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[15,42,12],"tags":[63,119,18,31,20,25,64],"class_list":["post-828","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-australia","category-general","category-pagan-blogosphere","tag-australian-paganism","tag-cultural-appropriation","tag-debates","tag-misconceptions","tag-opinion","tag-religion","tag-southern-hemisphere"],"yoast_head":"\nPagans Really Are an Entitled Bunch<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Ah the irony of discussing respecting other cultures and their sacred spaces, while completely ignoring the inherent 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