{"id":16634,"date":"2020-03-01T20:57:10","date_gmt":"2020-03-02T02:57:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/janetheactuary\/?p=16634"},"modified":"2020-03-01T20:57:10","modified_gmt":"2020-03-02T02:57:10","slug":"afghanistan-vietnam-and-the-limits-of-power","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/janetheactuary\/2020\/03\/afghanistan-vietnam-and-the-limits-of-power.html","title":{"rendered":"Afghanistan, Vietnam, and the limits of power"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

So we\u2019re leaving Afghanistan, with a partial, then ultimately a complete withdrawal.<\/p>\n

The Taliban has promised to behave themselves (that is, not to support Al-Qaida), or maybe they haven\u2019t, really (is the extent of the promise really just to not provide aid for any planned attacks on the US?).\u00a0 I could read, and attempt to parse the so-called \u201cpeace agreement,\u201d but I doubt it really matters.\u00a0 Its purpose is not to ensure that the Taliban enter into the Afghan government in a democratic fashion and hew to the norms of a modern democratic state.\u00a0 Its purpose, to the contrary, is to allow the US army to save face as it leaves the country.<\/p>\n

Am I a fan of this turn of events?<\/p>\n

Until not that long ago, I would have said that we simply cannot leave, because the fate of women and girls if the Taliban retake power is simply too grim.\u00a0 How can we simply leave them to a fate of being trapped in their homes or under burqas, dying in childbirth because they aren\u2019t permitted to seek medical care, and the like?\u00a0 It\u2019s appalling.<\/p>\n

But when you do the math \u2014 when you realize that the young men serving in the military were not necessarily even born when the precipitating event of September 11 occurred \u2014 well, at some point one must finally recognize that the nation-building that had always been a part of this endeavor simply isn\u2019t possible.\u00a0 Why that is, I don\u2019t know \u2014 that is, whether there are cultural differences that mean that the Afghanis simply aren\u2019t interested in the objective we have in mind for them, that the men (not just Taliban men) think the Taliban proscriptions are entirely appropriate, that they were willing to fight against the Soviet occupiers but not against their own people, that too many of them who might have fought left to claim refugee status in Europe, that those who would have liked to have a western-style democracy and economy simply weren\u2019t capable enough, etc.<\/p>\n

And maybe we \u2014 that is, the U.S. military and the various international development organizations, both the NGOs, and the arms of the US government such as USAID \u2014 might have been more competent at achieving this goal.\u00a0 Certainly, there were plenty of reports of corruption by the Afghans and of the Americans just standing by and accepting it.\u00a0 But after 18 years, under Bush, Obama, and now Trump, it\u2019s no longer reasonable to say, \u201cwell, it\u2019s the fault of X, and if Y had been in charge, it would have all gone differently.\u201d\u00a0 After all, both X and Y were in charge.\u00a0 Bush had his \u201csurge,\u201d to some degree of success?\u00a0 Did Obama squander it?\u00a0 In the end, it doesn\u2019t matter any longer; it\u2019s just too late now.<\/p>\n

And it\u2019s sad, really.\u00a0 I don\u2019t harbor any expectation that this will end well.\u00a0 I fully expect that we will at some point be helicoptering people out in a replay of 1975 Vietnam.<\/p>\n

And I wonder:\u00a0 did supporters of the agreement that led to US withdrawal from Vietnam, believe that it would produce lasting peace?\u00a0 Did they believe that North Vietnam would leave South Vietnam undisturbed?\u00a0 I know some number of war protesters believed that North Vietnam was in the right so would have been fine with an agreement that meant little more than a structure under which the U.S. would leave.<\/p>\n

In the end, it\u2019s one of a series of lessons.\u00a0 After all, I was a college student when the Berlin Wall fell, and in my understanding of the world, that was a clear divide between the Cold War era and fears of nuclear war, and a brighter future.\u00a0 True, the Tiananmen Square protest did not have the same outcome as those of the Soviet satellites, but I admit I bought into the idea that as China became more prosperous, it would eventually become more free.\u00a0 We have this sense that we are somehow hardwired for democracy.\u00a0 Is that really true?<\/p>\n

Consider the scene in the first Avengers movie, when Loki says<\/a>, \u201cIt is the unspoken truth of humanity that you crave subjugation.\u201d\u00a0 (Yes, I\u2019ve seen it multiple times \u2014 I have three boys, after all \u2014 but pulled the line from a quotes website.)\u00a0 We\u2019re not meant to believe that this is actually true \u2014 but there is a certain truth to it, at least insofar as the narrative of fighting for freedom doesn\u2019t always play out as we imagine.<\/p>\n

So anyway, that\u2019s all I have to say on the subject.<\/p>\n

How about you?<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

Image: \u00a0https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File%3AWomen_in_burqa_with_their_children_in_Herat%2C_Afghanistan.jpg; By Arnesen (Woman and Children) [CC BY-SA 2.0 (http:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by-sa\/2.0)], via Wikimedia Commons<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

So we\u2019re leaving Afghanistan, with a partial, then ultimately a complete withdrawal. The Taliban has promised to behave themselves (that is, not to support Al-Qaida), or maybe they haven\u2019t, really (is the extent of the promise really just to not provide aid for any planned attacks on the US?).\u00a0 I could read, and attempt to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2209,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[1413,1416],"class_list":["post-16634","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-afghanistan","tag-taliban"],"yoast_head":"\nAfghanistan, Vietnam, and the limits of power<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"So we're leaving Afghanistan, with a partial, then ultimately a complete withdrawal. 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