{"id":5714,"date":"2018-06-01T15:43:07","date_gmt":"2018-06-01T20:43:07","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/?p=5714"},"modified":"2018-06-01T15:45:16","modified_gmt":"2018-06-01T20:45:16","slug":"can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/","title":{"rendered":"Can a Protestant Church Get “Too Catholic”?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

South Carolina is basically one big small town, so the odds are high that I have kin or acquaintance at Red Bank Baptist Church.\u00a0 I have nothing ill to say about the place, not even after the congregation\u2019s latest art problem went viral<\/a>.\u00a0 I do think, however, that there\u2019s something Patheos readers across the channels should be thinking about in the whole \u201cToo Catholic\u201d problem.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s Not About the Art<\/h3>\n

There is nothing to be gained by quibbling over whether the congregation should or should not love its art.\u00a0 Being a Christian church-artist is a harrowing proposition: You are commissioned to paint, sculpt, etch, compose, or perform a work that touches the most important, most sacred part of someone\u2019s inner life, and somehow you\u2019re supposed to do that in a way that stirs and satisfies the hearts of hundreds or thousands of people \u2014 people who couldn\u2019t agree what temperature to set the thermostat, forget about questions of taste.<\/p>\n

So it\u2019s inevitable that not everyone is going to love the Jesus tableau.\u00a0 Even if it was fresh and inspiring a decade ago, you might reach a point where you\u2019re ready for something different.\u00a0 Not far from Red Bank Baptist is Corpus Christi Catholic Church, where Fr. Ray Carlo has been doing a magnificent job of salvaging art from older (closing) parishes around the country and slowly making the relatively recently-built neo-traditional parish more \u201cCatholic\u201d feeling.\u00a0 I could imagine him being tempted to gently decline a work like Red Bank Baptist\u2019s Jesus statue by perhaps saying that it doesn\u2019t quite mesh with a Catholic aesthetic sensibility.\u00a0 And yet you know we Catholics love us some Jesus statues, and there are plenty of Catholic parishes where Red Bank\u2019s art would fit right in.*<\/p>\n

Or perhaps Red Bank Baptist wasn\u2019t just looking for a polite way to take down last decade\u2019s artwork.\u00a0 Perhaps they really do have concerns about seeming \u201ctoo Catholic.\u201d And that is relevant to those of us who run in ecumenical circles.<\/p>\n

What Does it Mean to be Protestant?<\/h3>\n

I\u2019ve had a foot in the Evangelical world for a lot of years now, and every now and then I hear someone say, \u201cDon\u2019t call me\u00a0Protestant.<\/em> Call me\u00a0Christian.<\/em>\u00a0 I\u2019m not protesting anything, this is just what I believe.\u201d<\/p>\n

These people are genuine.\u00a0 They\u2019ve inherited a way of looking at Scripture and looking at the faith that does indeed descend from true protests against the Catholic Church, but they themselves have no fight with Catholics.\u00a0 They are open to any Christian of good will who can sign on to something like CS Lewis\u2019s concept of \u201cMere Christianity.\u201d\u00a0 When they find common ground with Catholics, they don\u2019t panic.<\/p>\n

Here\u2019s an example: At my son\u2019s baptism was a good friend, Christian but not Catholic, who\u2019d never attended a Catholic Mass.\u00a0 I asked her afterwards if she was bothered by the use of Mary\u2019s title \u201cMother of God.\u201d\u00a0 She told me, \u201cWell, I noticed it, because I\u2019ve never heard anyone say that before.\u00a0 But then I thought about it, and I realized, well, yes, she\u00a0is<\/em> the mother of Jesus, and Jesus\u00a0is<\/em>\u00a0God, so I guess why not?\u201d\u00a0 She didn\u2019t drop everything and run out and buy a rosary.\u00a0 But she was fine with other Christians talking about something that was a plain fact right out of Scripture.<\/p>\n

Contented, confident \u201cmere Christians\u201d do exist, and they are increasingly drifting into post-Protestant Christianity.<\/p>\n

Protesting Too Much?<\/h3>\n

I\u2019ve volunteered, studied, prayed, and worshiped with post-Protestant mere-Christians.\u00a0 And then I\u2019ve run into true Protestants.<\/p>\n

Here\u2019s an example: I was looking around at teaching jobs and came across a school that was hiring in a field I\u2019d be qualified to teach.\u00a0 I doubted they wanted Catholics, but I wasn\u2019t going to assume.\u00a0 I clicked around and found the statement faith.\u00a0 It was one that a Catholic could sign in good conscience.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s actually pretty hard to write a mere-Christian statement of faith that manages to keep the diversity of Evangelicals in the net without accidentally writing something Catholic-compatible.\u00a0 When you get onto a topic like, say, free will and predestination, there\u2019s more argument among various shades of Protestants than there is between Catholicism and the average Evangelical.<\/p>\n

In a previous generation this school I was looking at might have published a statement of faith that took a strict position along a single denomination\u2019s theology; but these days there\u2019s too much denominational cross-pollination.<\/p>\n

In my personal set of friends are a born-and-raised Pentecostal<\/a> now worshiping at\u00a0St. Evangelical the Anglican; a retired Assemblies of God<\/a> pastor tiptoeing through the TULIP at Downtown Prez; friends who\u2019ve reluctantly left Countryside Baptist in order to hang with the First Things crowd at Craft Brew Suburban Reformed; friends raised at St. John Wesley\u2019s Methodist Or Bust now attending Bursting at the Seams Southern Baptist . . . and no shortage of others who choose their church home based on the preaching, the worship service, the community, or even just the physical location, and don\u2019t necessarily even know or care what the official denominational affiliation of the place might be.<\/p>\n

Hiring instructors based on strict denominational purity is a non-starter for any Evangelical school trying to grow its staff rather than shrink it.<\/p>\n

So the school had an ingenious solution to the statement of faith problem: In addition to signing off on the school\u2019s mere-Christian theology, you also had to be an active, participating member in a\u00a0Protestant<\/em> congregation.<\/p>\n

Mere Christians, Unite!<\/h3>\n

Ironically, if I wanted to meet that requirement all I\u2019d need to do is get back involved someplace like the group of non-denominational Evangelicals I used to worship with twenty years ago.\u00a0 They didn\u2019t mind my being openly Catholic, had no problem with my reading their statement of faith through a Catholic lens, and were perfectly happy for me to sing, pray, and study for a few hours a week in Evangelical world and then skip on over to Mass at St. Statuesque.\u00a0 They were not\u00a0against<\/em> Catholics.\u00a0 They were\u00a0for<\/em> Christianity.<\/p>\n

We are living in a time when we need more of this.<\/p>\n

What is a Mere Christian?<\/h3>\n

I\u2019ve seen some people get all in a huff about the American Bible Society requiring employees to sign a statement of faith<\/a>. Go read it (scroll down to the bottom of the CT article).\u00a0 There\u2019s nothing in that statement that a Catholic couldn\u2019t happily sign.\u00a0 It\u2019s the historic creed plus an affirmation of our basic beliefs about Christian life in general and marriage in particular.\u00a0 Note even the subtle distinction between the \u201cI believe\u201d affirmations of the creed versus the \u201cI will seek\u201d aspirations of the statements on Christian morals: The ABS doesn\u2019t demand you be perfect, it only asks that these basic Christian beliefs be your goal and your ideal.<\/p>\n

There\u2019s an old joke that goes like this:<\/p>\n

What\u2019s the difference between a liberal Catholic and a conservative Catholic?<\/p>\n

A liberal Catholic is more comfortable with a Mainline Protestant than with an Evangelical.<\/p>\n

A conservative Catholic is more comfortable with an Evangelical than with a liberal Catholic.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I take exception to the idea that I\u2019m a \u201cconservative\u201d Catholic.\u00a0 I\u2019m just Catholic.\u00a0 I believe all that stuff in the Catechism, done.\u00a0 And if you believe that stuff in the Catechism, you have more in common with a statue-shy Evangelical than you do with people \u2014 no matter what they call themselves \u2014 who can\u2019t abide the American Bible Society drawing a line around a few important bits of mere-Christianity.<\/p>\n

I suspect Evangelicals are catching on to this.\u00a0 The Facebook uproar over Red Bank Baptist\u2019s persistent-Protesting suggests that there are a lot of people who can see clearly the need for post-Protestant mere-Christianity.<\/p>\n

\"File:Death
I tried really hard to find a nice Christian painting by someone who was definitely Protestant. But I ended up back in my usual haunt, Paintings By My Favorite Very Bad Catholic.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

*Some of us, of course, think the tableau will only come into its own once it\u2019s been painted glow-in-the-dark.\u00a0 We like our sacred pop art deeply kitschy, thanks.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

South Carolina is basically one big small town, so the odds are high that I have kin or acquaintance at Red Bank Baptist Church.\u00a0 I have nothing ill to say about the place, not even after the congregation\u2019s latest art problem went viral.\u00a0 I do think, however, that there\u2019s something Patheos readers across the channels […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1209,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[44,216,60],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5714","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-church-craziness","category-its-all-catholic","category-sacred-art-music"],"yoast_head":"\nCan a Protestant Church Get "Too Catholic"?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"South Carolina is basically one big small town, so the odds are high that I have kin or acquaintance at Red Bank Baptist Church.\u00a0 I have nothing ill to\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Can a Protestant Church Get "Too Catholic"?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"South Carolina is basically one big small town, so the odds are high that I have kin or acquaintance at Red Bank Baptist Church.\u00a0 I have nothing ill to\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Sticking the Corners\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/JenFitz.Writes\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2018-06-01T20:43:07+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2018-06-01T20:45:16+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/upload.wikimedia.org\/wikipedia\/commons\/thumb\/7\/78\/Death_of_the_Virgin-Caravaggio_%281606%29.jpg\/397px-Death_of_the_Virgin-Caravaggio_%281606%29.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Jennifer Fitz\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@Jennifer_Fitz\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Jennifer Fitz\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"7 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/\",\"name\":\"Can a Protestant Church Get \\\"Too Catholic\\\"?\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2018-06-01T20:43:07+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2018-06-01T20:45:16+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#\/schema\/person\/a1a80a6198996fd8f065088c38a255c3\"},\"description\":\"South Carolina is basically one big small town, so the odds are high that I have kin or acquaintance at Red Bank Baptist Church.\u00a0 I have nothing ill to\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Can a Protestant Church Get “Too Catholic”?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/\",\"name\":\"Sticking the Corners\",\"description\":\"Live it like you mean it.\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#\/schema\/person\/a1a80a6198996fd8f065088c38a255c3\",\"name\":\"Jennifer Fitz\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3aa95bdcebf0f9f0962d1a672129e152?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3aa95bdcebf0f9f0962d1a672129e152?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Jennifer Fitz\"},\"description\":\"Jennifer Fitz is the mother of four fantabulous children, and author of Classroom Management for Catechists. She writes online for Patheos and for the Catholic Conspiracy. When she isn't blogging, teaching, or complaining about something, she likes to play outside.\",\"sameAs\":[\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/JenFitz.Writes\/\",\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/Jennifer_Fitz\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/author\/jenniferfitz\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Can a Protestant Church Get \"Too Catholic\"?","description":"South Carolina is basically one big small town, so the odds are high that I have kin or acquaintance at Red Bank Baptist Church.\u00a0 I have nothing ill to","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Can a Protestant Church Get \"Too Catholic\"?","og_description":"South Carolina is basically one big small town, so the odds are high that I have kin or acquaintance at Red Bank Baptist Church.\u00a0 I have nothing ill to","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/","og_site_name":"Sticking the Corners","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/JenFitz.Writes\/","article_published_time":"2018-06-01T20:43:07+00:00","article_modified_time":"2018-06-01T20:45:16+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"https:\/\/upload.wikimedia.org\/wikipedia\/commons\/thumb\/7\/78\/Death_of_the_Virgin-Caravaggio_%281606%29.jpg\/397px-Death_of_the_Virgin-Caravaggio_%281606%29.jpg"}],"author":"Jennifer Fitz","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@Jennifer_Fitz","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Jennifer Fitz","Est. reading time":"7 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/","name":"Can a Protestant Church Get \"Too Catholic\"?","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#website"},"datePublished":"2018-06-01T20:43:07+00:00","dateModified":"2018-06-01T20:45:16+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#\/schema\/person\/a1a80a6198996fd8f065088c38a255c3"},"description":"South Carolina is basically one big small town, so the odds are high that I have kin or acquaintance at Red Bank Baptist Church.\u00a0 I have nothing ill to","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/2018\/06\/can-a-protestant-church-get-too-catholic\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Can a Protestant Church Get “Too Catholic”?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/","name":"Sticking the Corners","description":"Live it like you mean it.","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#\/schema\/person\/a1a80a6198996fd8f065088c38a255c3","name":"Jennifer Fitz","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3aa95bdcebf0f9f0962d1a672129e152?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3aa95bdcebf0f9f0962d1a672129e152?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Jennifer Fitz"},"description":"Jennifer Fitz is the mother of four fantabulous children, and author of Classroom Management for Catechists. She writes online for Patheos and for the Catholic Conspiracy. When she isn't blogging, teaching, or complaining about something, she likes to play outside.","sameAs":["http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/JenFitz.Writes\/","https:\/\/twitter.com\/Jennifer_Fitz"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/author\/jenniferfitz\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5714","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1209"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5714"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5714\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5714"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5714"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jenniferfitz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5714"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}