{"id":15164,"date":"2011-03-26T11:26:19","date_gmt":"2011-03-26T16:26:19","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/?p=15164"},"modified":"2011-03-26T12:45:46","modified_gmt":"2011-03-26T17:45:46","slug":"church-in-the-present-tense-by-jonny-baker","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/03\/26\/church-in-the-present-tense-by-jonny-baker\/","title":{"rendered":"Church in the Present Tense (by Jonny Baker)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

I swiped this review by Jonny Baker<\/strong><\/a> from this site [perhaps I should write jonnybaker]. Good discussion there, but maybe we can move it to the USA here at Jesus Creed. Bias alert: I wrote two chps in this book, one on Scripture and one on Atonement\/Gospel, so this is more than just a review for me. I\u2019m vested. But this is a fair review, focusing on Jason Clark\u2019s pieces.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>kevin corcoran has brought groups of students from calvin college to the uk a few times now beginning around 3 years back i think. the group have visited various christian communities\/churches and been to\u00a0grace<\/a> a couple of times. as part of that they conducted a series of interviews on film. i was interviewed at the time \u2013 it seems a while back now\u2026<\/p>\n

anyway all that by way of an intro to say that kevin has pulled together a new book \u2013 Church in the Present Tense: A Candid Look at What\u2019s Emerging<\/a><\/em><\/strong> \u2013\u00a0 which i sense has emerged from those visits, conversations and reflections on mission. it landed on my doormat last weekend and even though i had other things to do i found myself making a coffee and reading it through pretty much straight away. it has four authors each of whom contribute 2 chapters. the authors are kevin, jason clark, pete rollins and scot mcknight. then there\u2019s a dvd with interviews with the likes of pete, me , kester, jason, and rowan williams. i feel almost embarrassed writing this list and have to get this out of the way up front \u2013 with a title like church in the present tense\u00a0 why are none of the authors or interviews with women?! ouch\u2026 if you\u2019ve seen or been involved in the comments on the\u00a0new monasticism review\/post<\/a> it won\u2019t surprise you me mentioning it. it was the first thing i noticed and i just think it is such a shame and will probably reduce the readership of the book.<\/p>\n

anyway that\u2019s a bit of a negative opening comment but i enjoyed the book. i liked the stance of the book \u2013 it is holding open different perspectives on theology, mission and church that clearly disagree with one another in places but are trying to talk about it honestly. that\u2019s refreshing (though i think it might have been improved if authors had a chance to comment in some way on the other chapters). so for example kevin gets into philosophy (philosophy is not my hot area i confess) to debate philosophical realism \u2013 he suggest that the emerging conversation needs humility about truth claims but that doesn\u2019t mean you can\u2019t say things that are real \u2013 for example jesus christ is risen from the dead. i am sure there will be more conversation about this. it\u2019s a critique of pete and caputo amongst others i think. it did make me think that the emerging conversation probably gets caricatured as being into this debate much more than it is. or maybe it is a bigger debate in the US. there\u2019s a small subset who read the likes of derrida and zizek and heidegger but a huge number who probably don\u2019t (i have read none of them) but sense that postmodern cultures definitely throw up some new questions around truth. this chapter is one of two in a section on philosophy \u2013 pete writes the other. then there are scetions on theology, worship and bible and doctrine.<\/p>\n

i found jason clark\u2019s chapters interesting. this is probably because i haven\u2019t read too much of his wriitng and his tradition is very different to mine \u2013 he is from a baptist\/vineyard church planting background. in his first chapter he considers consumer culture and its formative impact on our lives. he suggests it is no less than a religious way of life, like a perverse liturgy that shapes us. i am sure he\u2019s right \u2013 i have no doubt that we are all co-opted in our worldviews, practices and imaginations much more than we would like to think by consumer culture and its logic. that logic places me at the centre of the universe constructing my lifestyle out of consumer choices and tastes. he raises questions about how that sort of imagination collides with the grammar of church and the counter cultural imagination of a life informed by the scriptures and the christian community asking where identity is formed. jason lays some critiques particularly at those who have stepped in some way outside of church and into what he calls private god spaces from where they offer critiques of church but without any embodied concrete missional or church life. he suggests deep church is the way forward \u2013 by which he means locating in the traditions and history of the church and not leaving it in the name of pragmatism or mission in search for the latest model. he also issues a challenge to stop problematising church and seek its wellness. he loves church \u2013 we probably need more people around who do! i have a guy on the course i\u2019m teaching who is refreshing in the same way and is forever saying how much he loves church. i welcomed these challenges and need to ponder them some more. but had a few thoughts in response\u2026<\/p>\n

the first is a bit tongue in cheek but having lambasted the process of \u2018organic\u2019 \u2018cell\u2019 \u2019emerging\u2019 or whatever as consumer solutions or fads to then propose another \u2013 \u2018deep church\u2019\u00a0 \u2013 seemed a bit ironic, a bit rich! it is awfully close to another consumer fad \u2013 there are already books on it, conferences, blogs, and money to be made. it also doesn\u2019t sound too different to me than what i have perceived already as being sensibilities of many involved in the emerging church \u2013 at least in the uk a lot is located in and out of the historic denominations and drawing on the ancient practices.<\/p>\n

secondly whilst i totally agree about the challenges of consumerism and formation i worry about the solution being offered \u2013 a different grammar and identity formation that is counter cultural. i do think a grammar is important. the key question is what is that grammar and how is it imagined \u2013 i guess i am asking not just how formation happens but what kind of formation. many strands or denominations of church articulate this sort of approach \u2013 whether the brethren or mennonites or anglican community or whatever. what they do is create a strong sense of community and with a grammar that has identity in it. so people experience formation but it often forms them in a way in my view that is too disengaged from the wider culture. i am finding it hard to describe what i sense here. what i have loved about the alternative worship movement and i think why it inspired me originally is that it had a very different instinct around culture (which has been formative in me) \u2013 a much more sacramental view of popular culture. so by being part of it i have found that i am formed in a way that does give me a grammar of the christian story and discipleship but it has formed me in a way to discern the presence of god within culture not apart from it. that\u2019s why some of the things jason critiques \u2013 trickster, starfish and spider i have no problem with as being sources of inspiration and sites for theological reflection. somehow i think you need grammar as jason is suggesting, but i don\u2019t think saying you need grammar goes far enough \u2013 let\u2019s have grammar that shapes people in christian identity but in a way that empowers them to live in the culture.<\/p>\n

jason loves the local church and that is classic baptist ecclesiology so it makes perfect sense and it\u2019s great. local church needs advocates. but i perceive an inherent criticism of others that are focused in other ways in mission.what i was arguing before<\/a> in the review of new monasticism is that church needs both local and movement expressions (sodal and modal). the local congregation is not the be all and end all \u2013 it is important and i am part of one but i find my life in mission enriched and fueled by being part of cms for example which is itself an expression of church as a spread out community. i am also intrigued by some of jason\u2019s critique \u2013 how many people are there who are proposing a way forward for the emergng church who don\u2019t see being part of an embodied actual community as essential? i am sure there are some but i don\u2019t know of many.<\/p>\n

his second chapter is on worship. this connects strongly with the first. he has discovered a rhythm and grammar in liturgy, in the church calendar, in the seasons of lent and advent, in the eucharist, in catechism. this is a very different place to where he started in baptist and then vineyard worship and i am guessing is probably somewhat shocking to those who knew him there. having grown up in the anglican church myself i grew up with this grammar or rhythm of liturgy in the church \u2013 this is the kind of grammar\/shape that we use in grace and i think many others have rediscovered as treasure in the traditions that perhaps they were shunning in the seventies and beyond. i hope these can continue to be opened up imaginatively. i recently read jamie smith\u2019s book\u00a0desiring the kingdom<\/a> which i have been meaning to review and haven\u2019t had time to. there is a chapter in there on worship that is making a very compelling argument similar to jason. my reaction to that though and to this was \u2013 it\u2019s not enough on its own. this is very similar to what i have tried to say above. when i read jamie\u2019s book i was thinking of the life of worship at a traditional denominational theological seminary for example \u2013 it ticks the boxes of what he suggests but i still have huge questions about it. it seems to form people in a particular religious way that can be cut off from engagement in mission with culture. so i think it\u2019s needed and am on a similar journey to jason and jamie albeit i started much closer to it by being part of a denominational church. but this kind of formation also needs some good mission thinking and cultural theology alongside it (which i have no doubt jason\u2019s church embody so it\u2019s not a critique of that). so it sound great and i agree but i am also a bit cautious. we need some more thinking and conversation about formation.<\/p>\n

i won\u2019t engage any other chapters as this review has already extended beyond what i imagined i\u2019d write but have a read of the book, see what you think. i should mention the dvd \u2013 rowan\u2019s interview is the most interesting \u2013 probably because he has a far bigger brain than the rest of us. he has a very interesting and simple answer to what church is \u2013 church is what happens when people encounter the risen jesus christ. institution is something that comes much later\u2026<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I swiped this review by Jonny Baker from this site [perhaps I should write jonnybaker]. Good discussion there, but maybe we can move it to the USA here at Jesus Creed. Bias alert: I wrote two chps in this book, one on Scripture and one on Atonement\/Gospel, so this is more than just a review […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":197,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-15164","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nChurch in the Present Tense (by Jonny Baker)<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"I swiped this review by Jonny Baker from this site . Good discussion there, but maybe we can move it to the USA here at Jesus Creed. 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