{"id":15179,"date":"2011-04-01T05:30:43","date_gmt":"2011-04-01T10:30:43","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/?p=15179"},"modified":"2011-04-01T06:15:02","modified_gmt":"2011-04-01T11:15:02","slug":"exploring-love-wins-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/","title":{"rendered":"Exploring Love Wins 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>I will begin this series on Rob Bell\u2019s book, <strong><em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/006204964X\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=jescre-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=006204964X\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived<\/a><\/em><\/strong>, with a prayer. I am asking that you pause quietly and slow down enough to pray this prayer as the way to approach this entire series:<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center\"><em>O Lord, you have taught us that without love whatever we do is worth nothing:<br>\nSend your Holy Spirit and pour into my heart your greatest gift,<br>\nwhich is love, the true bond of peace and of all virtue,<br>\nwithout which whoever lives is accounted dead before you.<br>\nGrant this for the sake of your only Son Jesus Christ,<br>\nwho lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God,<br>\nnow and for ever. Amen.<\/em>\u2020<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp.patheos.com\/community\/sites\/40\/2011\/03\/Screen-shot-2011-03-26-at-9.22.04-AM.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-15187\" title=\"Screen shot 2011-03-26 at 9.22.04 AM\" src=\"https:\/\/wp.patheos.com\/community\/sites\/40\/2011\/03\/Screen-shot-2011-03-26-at-9.22.04-AM.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"199\" height=\"222\"><\/a>Our goal is not to win; our goal is not to classify Rob Bell; our goal is not see who is the most faithful; our goal is not to say who has the best review; our goal is not to debate other reviews. Our goal is to explore together the Bible\u2019s teaching and the themes of this book by using Rob Bell\u2019s book \u2014 and as we explore these themes to come to reasonable conclusions about what we are to believe. [If you\u2019d like to spread the word about this conversation, please tweet it or FB share it above.]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">Universalism and pluralism are perhaps the biggest challenges to the church\u2019s traditional theology today. I did not say universalism and pluralism are \u201cthreats,\u201d though one could say it that way. I say \u201cchallenges\u201d because I am convinced many in our churches are at the least easy-going inclusivists and many are somehow confident universalists (or almost that). If you are not hearing this issue in your church it is probably because the environment is not safe enough to probe the question in public. Rob Bell is hearing this message loud and clear. I\u2019m glad he\u2019s provoking people to think about it.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">We will meet this challenge to the historic, orthodox belief of the church, not by pounding the pulpit of exclusivism, which will confirm the convinced but mute the voices of those who really do have questions. We can rise to the challenge by entering into the reality of the problems and by proposing fresh, creative, biblical and theological resolutions that compel the church to think clearly about the magnitude of its claims \u2014 that salvation is found in Jesus Christ, and in Jesus Christ alone. What C.S. Lewis did in his generation with <strong><em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0060652969\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=jescre-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=0060652969\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Problem of Pain<\/a><\/em><\/strong>, and then later with <strong><em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0060652381\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=jescre-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=0060652381\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">A Grief Observed<\/a><\/em><\/strong>, as well as with <strong><em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0060652950\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=jescre-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=0060652950\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Great Divorce<\/a><\/em><\/strong>, needs to be done in our generation. I\u2019m neither suggesting that Rob Bell is on par with Lewis nor that <em>Love Wins<\/em> is that book. What I am saying is that the issues emerging from this universalistic challenge to the church are vital because there is no book that meets the challenge. <em>Love Wins<\/em> puts the question on the table.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\"><strong>Are you willing to open up to the questions he will ask in this book? Are his questions, some of them that broach universalism and second chances and God\u2019s expansive love, viable and safe in your church?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\"><!--more--><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">This series will explore what Rob Bell says in his book, and it will riff off of what Rob says. Don\u2019t expect blow by blow arguments. In some ways I want to take up the challenge myself. In other cases I will probe into Rob\u2019s arguments and disagree with them. Sometimes I will agree with him.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">First, Rob Bell says Jesus\u2019s story \u201cis first and foremost about the love of God for every single one of us\u201d (vii). This God-loves-us story has been hijacked, he says, by a \u201cgrowing number of us\u201d and he says there are \u201cmillions of us.\u201d\u00a0 The hijacked version of the story is that a \u201cselect few Christians will spend forever in \u2026 heaven, while the rest of humanity spends forever in torment and punishment in hell with no chance for anything better\u201d (viii). This hijacked story says it is a \u201ccentral truth\u201d and Bell says this story is \u201cmisguided and toxic.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">Serious questions: <strong>In your church\u2019s teaching, will be most people be saved? many? some? few? Is your church one in which most or some or few will be saved? Or is your church one that is agnostic about this question? These are the questions that haunt this book and these are the questions that many are asking, or want to ask but are afraid to ask. I am asking you to weigh in on this one. <\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\"><strong>I can put it this way: In light of how the gospel is preached in your church, and assuming 95% [I don\u2019t of course know but let\u2019s say that number is right] North Koreans have never heard the gospel, what percent of North Koreans will spend forever with God? Maybe this kind of question makes you feel uncomfortable, but it\u2019s one we have to face. That is one of the deepest concerns in Rob Bell\u2019s book. It\u2019s time to be honest about what we think. The gospel claim is that salvation is found in Christ alone (Acts 4:12). What about those who have not heard? Where do you stand?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\"><strong>Do you ever ask what kind of image of God is conveyed if most humans will be excluded from the good presence of God?<br>\n<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">Second, Rob says lots of people have questions about the Jesus-ness [my word] of this hijacked story. And they want to come to Jesus and to the Bible and to the Christian tradition and ask questions about that hijacked story. \u201cThere is no question,\u201d Rob claims, \u201cthat Jesus cannot handle, no discussion too volatile, no issue too dangerous\u201d (x).<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">\n<\/p><p style=\"text-align: left\">Third, in order to be complete in my sketch, Rob says what he teaches in this book \u2026 that \u201cnothing in this book hasn\u2019t been taught, suggested, or celebrated by many before me\u201d and he connects his own approach as part of \u201cthe historic, orthodox Christian faith.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">I\u2019ve got questions here because I don\u2019t know who is defining \u201corthodox\u201d \u2026 there\u2019s an entire history about the questions about the afterlife \u2014 who will be there, how to get in and what keeps you out \u2014 that involves complex theological problems and to say what Rob says requires some careful nuancing of that history and those issues. But notice his words: \u201ctaught, <em>suggested<\/em>, or celebrated.\u201d That word \u201csuggested\u201d is loose enough that I\u2019d say what he teaches in this book has been suggested, but that\u2019s not the same as the \u201chistoric, orthodox Christian faith.\u201d Suggestions and faith are not the same.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">For other posts, see <a href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/2011\/03\/25\/tony-jones-responds-to-rob-bell\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Tony Jones, Greg Boyd<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">Jeff Cook compares <a href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/2011\/03\/23\/rob-bell-and-c-s-lewis-by-jeff-cook\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Rob Bell with C.S. Lewis<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">Early <a href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/2011\/03\/19\/rob-bell-reviews\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Rob Bell reviews.<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">Waiting for Rob Bell <a href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/2011\/03\/02\/waiting-for-rob-bell\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">part one<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/2011\/03\/07\/waiting-for-rob-bell-2\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">part two<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I will begin this series on Rob Bell\u2019s book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived, with a prayer. I am asking that you pause quietly and slow down enough to pray this prayer as the way to approach this entire series: O Lord, you have [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":197,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1783],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-15179","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-universalism"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Exploring Love Wins 1<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"I will begin this series on Rob Bell&#039;s book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived, with a prayer. I am asking\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Exploring Love Wins 1\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I will begin this series on Rob Bell&#039;s book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived, with a prayer. I am asking\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Jesus Creed\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2011-04-01T10:30:43+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2011-04-01T11:15:02+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/wp.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/files\/2011\/03\/Screen-shot-2011-03-26-at-9.22.04-AM.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Scot McKnight\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Scot McKnight\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"6 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/\",\"name\":\"Exploring Love Wins 1\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2011-04-01T10:30:43+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2011-04-01T11:15:02+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252\"},\"description\":\"I will begin this series on Rob Bell's book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived, with a prayer. I am asking\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Exploring Love Wins 1\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/\",\"name\":\"Jesus Creed\",\"description\":\"Scot McKnight on Jesus and orthodox faith in the 21st century\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252\",\"name\":\"Scot McKnight\",\"description\":\"Scot McKnight is a recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. McKnight, author of more than fifty books, is the Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary in Lombard, IL.\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/author\/scotmcknight\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Exploring Love Wins 1","description":"I will begin this series on Rob Bell's book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived, with a prayer. I am asking","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Exploring Love Wins 1","og_description":"I will begin this series on Rob Bell's book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived, with a prayer. I am asking","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/","og_site_name":"Jesus Creed","article_published_time":"2011-04-01T10:30:43+00:00","article_modified_time":"2011-04-01T11:15:02+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/wp.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/files\/2011\/03\/Screen-shot-2011-03-26-at-9.22.04-AM.jpg"}],"author":"Scot McKnight","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Scot McKnight","Est. reading time":"6 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/","name":"Exploring Love Wins 1","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website"},"datePublished":"2011-04-01T10:30:43+00:00","dateModified":"2011-04-01T11:15:02+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252"},"description":"I will begin this series on Rob Bell's book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived, with a prayer. I am asking","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/04\/01\/exploring-love-wins-1\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Exploring Love Wins 1"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/","name":"Jesus Creed","description":"Scot McKnight on Jesus and orthodox faith in the 21st century","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252","name":"Scot McKnight","description":"Scot McKnight is a recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. McKnight, author of more than fifty books, is the Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary in Lombard, IL.","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/author\/scotmcknight\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15179","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/197"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=15179"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15179\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=15179"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=15179"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=15179"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}