Jeff Cook to Francis Chan<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"This post is by Jeff Cook, someone well known to readers of the Jesus Creed blog. Jeff is weighing on the Francis Chan promotional video on his new book,\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/05\/25\/jeff-cook-to-francis-chan\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Jeff Cook to Francis Chan\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"This post is by Jeff Cook, someone well known to readers of the Jesus Creed blog. 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{"id":17060,"date":"2011-05-25T05:24:44","date_gmt":"2011-05-25T10:24:44","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/?p=17060"},"modified":"2011-05-25T14:26:40","modified_gmt":"2011-05-25T19:26:40","slug":"jeff-cook-to-francis-chan","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/05\/25\/jeff-cook-to-francis-chan\/","title":{"rendered":"Jeff Cook to Francis Chan"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Another well-known pastor has thrown his hat into the ring regarding hell.<\/p>\n

Francis Chan recently posted an ad<\/a> for his book\u00a0 Erasing Hell: What God Said about Eternity, and the Things We Made Up <\/a><\/em><\/strong>which is set to release in July. I have deep respect and love for Chan, his heart and his work. As one who will probably disagree with Chan\u2019s conclusions in his upcoming book, let me affirm a handful of worthy aspects of his ad which the church collectively can continue to celebrate in one voice. I affirm the need for humility when talking about God, theology, and points of contention within the church. I affirm the need to be hyperaware of our tone when speaking about hell (as Chan said, \u201cWe are talking about real people here.\u201d) I affirm that \u201ceverything\u201d needs to be on the table and that it is paramount to not misrepresent God. And I affirm that for those of us who are truly invested in this conversation\u2014\u201cConfess, pray, fast, and study diligently, because we can\u2019t afford to be wrong on this issue\u201d\u2014is an outstanding pastoral affirmation.<\/p>\n

Now I\u2019m not a theologian; I\u2019m a philosopher, and in Chan\u2019s presentation are a handful of very important philosophic claims. I am in no way critiquing Chan\u2019s book (which again hasn\u2019t been released yet). I am only critiquing the arguments he puts forward in this preview.<\/p>\n

At the crux of his presentation, Chan says, \u201cI\u2019m a piece of clay trying to explain to other pieces of clay what the potter is like. It\u2019s silly to think we are experts on him. Our only hope is that he would reveal to us what he is like, and then we repeat those things.\u201d This is the starting point and it\u2019s a claim about what can and cannot be known about God.<\/p>\n

In this spirit Chan cites Isaiah 55 (\u201cYour thoughts are not like my thoughts. Your ways not like my way.\u201d) and then he begins to critique an argument which (I think it\u2019s safe to assume) is a reason he has heard for rejecting hell as eternal conscious torment. He says,<\/p>\n

\u201cSo when we begin an argument with, \u201cWell, I wouldn\u2019t believe in a God who would\u2026\u201d Who would what? Do something that you wouldn\u2019t do? Or think in a way that\u2019s different than the way you think? Do you ever even consider the possibility that maybe the creator\u2019s sense of justice is actually more developed than yours? And that maybe his love and his mercy are perfect, and that you could be the one that is flawed? See when we make statements like, \u201cWell God wouldn\u2019t do this would he?\u201d Do you understand that at that moment you are actually putting God\u2019s actions in submission to your reasoning?\u201d<\/p>\n

It seems to me, the central point Chan wishes to make in the ad flows from these claims and questions and I would like to advance and defend the following three critiques outlined in bold.<\/p>\n

(1)\u00a0\u00a0 In contrast to Chan\u2019s claim, we need to rationally wrestle with our views about who God is and what he does, and to fail to do so is sloth. <\/strong>Scripturally speaking God invites us to use our minds when engaging who he is and what he does (Isa 1:18, Rm 12:2, among many others). In fact, we put God\u2019s actions \u201cin submission to our reasoning\u201d every time we say that what God does is praise-worthy, loving, good, just, wise, self-sacrificial, etc, These are all rational assessments of God\u2019s nature, actions, and character\u2014and they should not be avoided. I can bring into this discussion two quotations from those who have pondered Job \u2014 one from C.S. Lewis and one from Robert Gordis.<\/p>\n

C.S. Lewis: \u201cThe point [of Job] is that the\u00a0man who accepts our ordinary standard of good and by it hotly criticizes\u00a0divine justice receives the divine approval: the orthodox, pious people who\u00a0palter with that standard in the attempt to justify God are condemned.\u00a0\u00a0Apparently the way to advance from our imperfect apprehension of justice\u00a0to the absolute justice is\u00a0not<\/em> to throw our imperfect apprehensions aside but\u00a0boldly to go on applying them\u201d (\u201cDe Futilitate<\/em>,\u201d in Christian Reflections<\/a><\/em><\/strong>,\u00a070).<\/p>\n

\u201cFaced with the tragic dilemma of a righteous man\u2019s suffering in an immoral\u00a0world created by a righteous God, Job is nevertheless\u00a0unwilling to\u00a0surrender his ideal of rectitude<\/em> \u201d (R. Gordis,\u00a0Book of God and Man: A Study of Job<\/a> <\/em><\/strong>,\u00a0153).<\/p>\n

(2)\u00a0\u00a0 There\u2019s a real problem with criticizing all claims that begin with, \u201cI wouldn\u2019t believe in a God who would\u2026.\u201d <\/strong>We should choose not to believe in a God who would \u2026 repeatedly torture 3 year olds for fun. We should choose not to believe in a God who would \u2026. command cowardice, betrayal, abuse, and ignorance? \u201cBelief in God\u201d implies trust and devotion, and it seems to me *some* pictures of God are not worthy of either trust or devotion.<\/p>\n

Now, if I say, \u201cI wouldn\u2019t believe in a God who would \u2026 create a few billion people, knowing that they will never believe in him and are irreversibly destined to suffer in unending isolation and fire,\u201d that *can be* an appropriate move. I can make that move while acknowledging that my course of action \u201cmight be the one flawed.\u201d I can make that move while acknowledging that God\u2019s \u201csense of justice\u201d is superior to mine, and that God thinks about things in a different way than I do. What those who defend the traditional view of hell must do is showcase why a good God *could* think unending conscious torment is the best option for the damned<\/strong>. Otherwise, it seems appropriate for a reasonable person (if they believe a \u201cgood\u201d being by definition will not create conditions in which a person will experience torment for countless lifetimes) to either reject that picture of God or reject that view of hell.<\/p>\n

(3)\u00a0\u00a0 The idea of \u201cjustice\u201d must be the same for God and for us, otherwise the term lacks linguistic value<\/strong>. Chan asks, \u201cDo you ever even consider the possibility that maybe the creator\u2019s sense of justice is actually more developed than yours?\u201d Of course it is in one sense, but if God\u2019s concept of justice is radically different than ours then it makes no sense for us to call God \u201cjust\u201d any more. If we are to talk about \u201cjustice\u201d at all, the definition must hold for ants as well as deities, otherwise we are talking of apples and oranges and all such language breaks down.<\/p>\n

Regarding hell, what Chan and others must do is show how the traditional view of hell is in any way \u201cjust,\u201d and philosophically speaking I have not seen this done well in either academic or popular Christian literature. Many who reject the traditional view of hell (or the Christian God because of it) hold to a principle \u2014 \u201cThere is no state of affairs in which it is appropriate to incarcerate a human being in a state of eternal, conscious torment.\u201d As I suggested before, this requires a response from those who hold the traditional view of hell; they must show that it is in fact \u201cjust\u201d to do so. The response that, \u201cGod knows things we don\u2019t\u201d or \u201cGod does things we wouldn\u2019t do\u201d is insufficient here (In philosophical jargon, this is a \u201cphantom argument\u201d). Some kind of story needs to be told that makes initiating eternal conscious torment morally praise-worthy and in accord with what we mean (or should mean) by \u201cjustice.\u201d<\/p>\n

On one hand I applaud Chan\u2019s ad. It moves the discussion on hell forward in the church at large. However, it seems to me that those who affirm the traditional view of hell need to do more than say \u201cthis is what the Bible says and we\u2019re just repeating it.\u201d Everyone involved in the debate about hell right now is saying \u201cthe Bible says\u201d<\/em>. What those who affirm the traditional view must show is why that view is worthy of devotion.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"