{"id":17602,"date":"2011-06-27T00:04:55","date_gmt":"2011-06-27T05:04:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/?p=17602"},"modified":"2011-06-25T13:01:32","modified_gmt":"2011-06-25T18:01:32","slug":"gods-just-justice-john-frye","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/06\/27\/gods-just-justice-john-frye\/","title":{"rendered":"God&#8217;s Just Justice (John Frye)"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>This is by our friend and pastor and author, John Frye.<\/p>\n<p>A JUST GOD DOES PUNISH PEOPLE<\/p>\n<p>The church of the Thessalonians \u201cin God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ\u201d exploded into being. However long Paul was in Thessalonica, most agree it wasn\u2019t an extensive amount of time (see Acts 17:1-9). Swept out of town because of a political uproar, Paul, Silas and Timothy left in a hurry. Paul was anxious to know how this new, mostly Gentile convert church was doing. Hearing a report from Timothy, Paul was greatly encouraged (1 Th 3:6). The \u201cgospel\u201d they received was full of life-transforming energy and Paul beams his excitement about their growth in the Christian faith.<\/p>\n<p>Paul is astounded by and brags about the Thessalonians\u2019 conversion to Jesus Christ. People are telling Paul how the Thessalonians \u201cturned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead\u2013Jesus, who rescues us from coming wrath\u201d (1 Th. 1:9-10).\u00a0 Thessalonica, a privileged Roman city, a free city like Philippi, was home to rampant pagan idolatry. Any cursory study of idolatry in the first century world reveals the totalitarian nature of its control over the lives of common people. Serving idols was a crap-shoot and no one ever lived with peace of mind regarding the gods.\u00a0<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>The new converts turned to God from idols. Conversion. The necessary turning (repenting) was evoked by the gospel as it was permeated and spoken with power and the Holy Spirit. The new converts were now serving not lifeless idols, but the living God, the true God, the raised-his-Son-from-the-dead God. These new converts were waiting for the exalted Son\u2019s return, the Son who rescues us from the coming\u00a0 wrath. Rescues? Coming wrath (orges) ? Two strong concepts. But I thought God is love and love wins. We can\u2019t make this text read \u201crescues us now from whatever wrath we make for ourselves.\u201d It is clearly an eschatological anticipation.<\/p>\n<p>These new converts to Jesus the Messiah were being persecuted either by angry citizens or by jealous Jews or both. The new converts were enduring, even florishing under the threats. Paul in his second letter continues to thank God for their stamina (2 Th. 1:3-4). Then we read (NIV) \u201cGod is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might\u2026\u201d (2 Th. 1:6-9).<\/p>\n<p>I read [if indeed] God is just, he will pay back trouble. This isn\u2019t ugly, sinful, fitful vengeance. God is just and will pay back.<\/p>\n<p>I read God will punish (ekdikesin), they will suffer punishment (pay the penalty), everlasting destruction (olethron aionion)\u00a0away from the presence of the Lord. If behind the blazing fire of v 7 is an allusion to Isaiah 66:15 (Fee), then the fire is not a purifying fire, but a punishing fire. This is dreadful fire.<\/p>\n<p>This text is not necessarily Paul\u2019s description of hell. The horrifying consequence for Paul is to be \u201cshut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might\u201d (v 9) for the reason of \u201cnot knowing God and obeying the gospel of our Lord Jesus\u201d (v 8).<\/p>\n<p>In our continuing conversation about the consequences of sin and conditions in the \u201ceternal state,\u201d I think we can conclude from these two Thessalonian texts that\u00a0God is just in punishing\u00a0those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus. God\u2019s justice does not require that he, in the end, forgive everyone.\u00a0 Forgiveness is not an attribute of God. It is an act. Therefore not forgiving is not a violation of God\u2019s being. Yes, God is love and God can be unforgiving. Forgiveness is not part of our nature, either. It, too, is a decision, an act just like God\u2019s forgiveness is a decision, an act. I think it is petulant to respond: if God does not forgive all the time, then I don\u2019t have to either. In view of the cross, we live in a vast forgiveness atmosphere. We are called to forgive just as God forgives us. This is right and commanded. Yet, God is just and he will punish evil doers. Love does not require that God forgive.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This is by our friend and pastor and author, John Frye. A JUST GOD DOES PUNISH PEOPLE The church of the Thessalonians \u201cin God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ\u201d exploded into being. However long Paul was in Thessalonica, most agree it wasn\u2019t an extensive amount of time (see Acts 17:1-9). Swept out of [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":197,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-17602","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>God&#039;s Just Justice (John Frye)<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"This is by our friend and pastor and author, John Frye. 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