{"id":1831,"date":"2006-10-24T02:20:54","date_gmt":"2006-10-24T07:20:54","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/2006\/10\/24\/do-calvinists-understand-arminianism-8\/"},"modified":"2006-10-24T02:20:54","modified_gmt":"2006-10-24T07:20:54","slug":"do-calvinists-understand-arminianism-8","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2006\/10\/24\/do-calvinists-understand-arminianism-8\/","title":{"rendered":"Do Calvinists understand Arminianism? 8"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Myth #8: Arminians do not believe in predestination. Not so, says Roger Olson in <em>Arminian Theology<\/em>. Predestination, because it is in the Bible, is believed by Arminians. Here\u2019s his point: predestination is God\u2019s sovereign decree to elect believers in Jesus Christ, and it includes God\u2019s foreknowledge of those believers\u2019 faith. <!--more|inline--><br>\nThe basic Bible verse for Arminians is Romans 8:29 (with 8:28):<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span class=\"sup\">28<\/span> And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who<sup> <\/sup>have been called according to his purpose. <span class=\"sup\">29<\/span>For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Now, what this text says is that God predestines according to foreknowledge; and 1 Peter 1:1-2 says the same. Most Calvinists know that Arminians do believe in predestination, but it hasn\u2019t stopped the general popular comment that Calvinists do and Arminians don\u2019t when it comes to predestination.<br>\nEssentially, Arminians believe God knows what humans will do and predestination is rooted in, or related to, that foreknowledge. Election, for the Arminian, is corporate: God chooses Christ; all in Christ are chosen. There is an individual meaning (foreknowledge of individual choices) and collective meaning (election of a people). The individual then is conditional; the collective is unconditional.<br>\nArminians have remonstrated with Calvinists for centuries on this singular point: if God chooses some to be reprobate (double predestination\/elective sense), then God\u2019s gracious love and justice are threatened.  Olson again goes through the same list to show the [in]consistency of Arminian thinking in a similar way] \u2014 while both think they are consistent.] {bracketed material added later due to the mistake of saying \u201cconsistency\u201d; thanks Kipp]<br>\nTwo issues arise: middle knowledge and open theism.<br>\nMiddle knowledge asks this: If God knows all, how can individuals be free (liberatarian free will)? If they are, then God knows all possibilities resulting from all permutations of decisions throughout all of history! Molinism resolves, according to some (e.g, Wm Lane Craig), the problem. Olson relies on Witt here and contends with him that Molinism is ultimately another form of determinism. (Terry Tiessen: Do you agree?) That is, counterfactuals of freedom are illogical.<br>\nOpen theism:God does not, according to open theism, know the future exhaustively or infallibly. God\u2019s knowledge is limited because God has chosen it to be so. Not all Arminians believe this; in fact, most don\u2019t.<br>\nThus, Olson concludes, Arminians are in a paradox: God\u2019s exhaustive foreknowledge and belief in libertarian free will. As Calvinists believe in unconditional foreordination of sin and human responsibility for sin, so Arminians have the paradox of libertarian free will and God\u2019s foreknowledge.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Myth #8: Arminians do not believe in predestination. Not so, says Roger Olson in Arminian Theology. Predestination, because it is in the Bible, is believed by Arminians. Here\u2019s his point: predestination is God\u2019s sovereign decree to elect believers in Jesus Christ, and it includes God\u2019s foreknowledge of those believers\u2019 faith.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":197,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[476,1643],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1831","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-books","category-calvinism"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Do Calvinists understand Arminianism? 8<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Myth #8: Arminians do not believe in predestination. Not so, says Roger Olson in Arminian Theology. 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