{"id":20241,"date":"2011-09-13T00:09:12","date_gmt":"2011-09-13T05:09:12","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/?p=20241"},"modified":"2011-09-13T06:02:40","modified_gmt":"2011-09-13T11:02:40","slug":"two-smacks-max-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/09\/13\/two-smacks-max-3\/","title":{"rendered":"Two Smacks Max 3"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

William Webb, in his newest book, Corporal Punishment in the Bible: A Redemptive-Movement Hermeneutic for Troubling Texts<\/a><\/em><\/strong>, examines what might be called the traditional view of spanking among evangelical Christians. He calls it the \u201ctwo smacks max\u201d or \u201ctwo spanks max\u201d method.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>No Christians today follow the face-value meanings of biblical statements about corporal disciplinary punishment but instead, Webb argues, have gone beyond what the Bible says. This chp provides a biblical argument for \u201cgoing beyond\u201d the Bible when it comes to corporal punishment. In other words, it proposes a redemptive movement reading of how Christians can live out the spirit of the biblical teachings.<\/p>\n

Do you think Webb\u2019s three points below provide an adequate rationale for going \u201cbeyond\u201d the plain senses of the Bible about corporal punishment?<\/strong> Why do you think even pro-spankers transcend what the Bible says?<\/strong><\/p>\n

First, it provides a biblical basis in the redemptive movement readings of the teachings in their historical contexts. That is, when we see what the Bible commands Israelites to do over against what other cultures were doing, we see the spirit of redemptive change at work.<\/p>\n

Examples: the ancient Egyptians limited corporal punishment to two hundred blows but most punishments were 100 blows. The ancient Babylonians limited the same to 60 blows; the ancient Assyrian laws limited it to five to 100 blows; but ancient Israel limited it to 40 blows. Webb sees here a softening in the direction of redemption. Then this:<\/p>\n

The biblical text moves the covenant people of God toward a kinder and gentler<\/em> administration of justice and toward a greater dignity<\/em> for the human being who is punished \u2014 this is the spirit of the Bible as it is read within its larger social framework (84).<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

This illustrates both the redemptive movement and how the pro-spankers have \u201capplied\u201d the Bible today. Though they may not like the redemptive movement, what they have already done illustrates the redemptive movement.There is really no other way to comprehend how pro-spankers have \u201capplied\u201d the Bible to corporal punishment today other than to say they have used some kinds of reasons that lead them to go beyond the Bible.<\/p>\n

The second biblical reason Webb gives is called \u201cabstracted meaning.\u201d Good abstracted meaning is to find underlying principles at work already in the text. Bad abstracted meaning, according to Webb: finding principles for anger management in the Joseph story for that is not at all involved in the text. He illustrates: he gives his son a broom and says sweeps the garage, only to return an hour later to discover a spotless garage. Instead of \u201csweeping\u201d (the words) he inferred to the abstracted meaning (clean the garage) and, instead of using the broom, got the shopvac and really cleaned it up. He saw underlying the words the deep idea and then acted on the deep idea.<\/p>\n

Then he provides a kind of ladder of abstraction for Prov 31:6-7 which says \u201cgive beer and wine to those perishing, in anguish or in poverty.\u201d<\/p>\n

Level one: do exactly the literal thing, nothing less and nothing more.
\nLevel two: use any alcoholic drinks.
\nLevel three: provide relief those in physical, emotional, financial pain
\nLevel four: love people in physical, emotional, financial pain
\nLevel five: love people in pain
\nLevel six: love people<\/p>\n

Pro-spankers, Webb argues, are doing this sort of thing at times.<\/p>\n

His third reason why we can go beyond the Bible on corporal punishment: purpose meaning. The aim of corporal punishment of children\/foolish folks in the Bible is to turn from folly and to help them embrace wisdom. The \u201cend\u201d does not always justify the \u201cmeans.\u201d This approach focuses on using the appropriate means to achieve these divine ends. As this criterion does not justify the use of torture (which might work in some cases) nor does it justify abandoning any trace of corporal punishment. If we are able to accomplish the divine goals of no folly and wisdom, then abandoning the rod could be biblically justified.<\/p>\n

Webb thinks the primary reason for the pro-spankers abandoning the specifics of the Bible on corporal punishment has to do with kinder and gentler and more sane treatment of children (92). He queries how the pro-Dobson folks can justify being biblical in these matters when they are not following the Bible strictly. Webb both celebrates what they are doing and provides a biblical rationale for what they are doing.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

William Webb, in his newest book, Corporal Punishment in the Bible: A Redemptive-Movement Hermeneutic for Troubling Texts, examines what might be called the traditional view of spanking among evangelical Christians. He calls it the \u201ctwo smacks max\u201d or \u201ctwo spanks max\u201d method. No Christians today follow the face-value meanings of biblical statements about corporal disciplinary […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":197,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[456],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-20241","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-bible"],"yoast_head":"\nTwo Smacks Max 3<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"William Webb, in his newest book, Corporal Punishment in the Bible: A Redemptive-Movement Hermeneutic for Troubling Texts, examines what might be called\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/09\/13\/two-smacks-max-3\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Two Smacks Max 3\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"William Webb, in his newest book, Corporal Punishment in the Bible: A Redemptive-Movement Hermeneutic for Troubling Texts, examines what might be called\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/09\/13\/two-smacks-max-3\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Jesus Creed\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2011-09-13T05:09:12+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2011-09-13T11:02:40+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/wp.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/files\/2011\/08\/Screen-shot-2011-08-29-at-8.21.18-PM-300x244.png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Scot McKnight\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Scot McKnight\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/09\/13\/two-smacks-max-3\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/09\/13\/two-smacks-max-3\/\",\"name\":\"Two Smacks Max 3\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2011-09-13T05:09:12+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2011-09-13T11:02:40+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252\"},\"description\":\"William Webb, in his newest book, Corporal Punishment in the Bible: A Redemptive-Movement Hermeneutic for Troubling Texts, examines what might be called\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/09\/13\/two-smacks-max-3\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/09\/13\/two-smacks-max-3\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2011\/09\/13\/two-smacks-max-3\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Two Smacks Max 3\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/\",\"name\":\"Jesus Creed\",\"description\":\"Scot McKnight on Jesus and orthodox faith in the 21st century\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252\",\"name\":\"Scot McKnight\",\"description\":\"Scot McKnight is a recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. 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