{"id":5368,"date":"2009-03-18T00:27:38","date_gmt":"2009-03-18T05:27:38","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/"},"modified":"2009-03-18T00:27:38","modified_gmt":"2009-03-18T05:27:38","slug":"our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Our Collective Faith and Heresies 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p><span class=\"mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Heresies.jpg\" src=\"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/jesuscreed\/imgs\/Heresies.jpg\" class=\"mt-image-right\" style=\"margin: 0pt 0pt 20px 20px;float: right\" height=\"238\" width=\"149\"><\/span>What about Arius, the prototypical heretic? The 1st chp in B. Quash and M. Ward, <em><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1598560131?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=jescre-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=1598560131\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Heresies and How to Avoid Them: Why It Matters What Christians Believe<\/a><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.assoc-amazon.com\/e\/ir?t=jescre-20&amp;l=as2&amp;o=1&amp;a=1598560131\" alt=\"\" style=\"border: medium none  ! important;margin: 0px ! important\" border=\"0\" height=\"1\" width=\"1\"> <\/strong><\/em>, written by Michael B. Thompson (Anglican Vice-Principal of Ridley Hall in Cambridge and professor). This book would be a wonderful primer for college students, a Bible study group, or an adult SS class on heresies. Clarity and simplicity mark every page of this book.<\/p>\n<p>In brief, Arianism denies the full deity of Christ. The issue is whether or not Christ is eternal and divine or created. Orthodoxy affirms eternality and deity, Arius believed Christ was created.<\/p>\n<p><b>What happens to Christian theology if it denies Christ\u2019s Deity (or humanity)? Have you (actually) seen its denial make a negative impact on someone or some church?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>Arius was an educated, attractive, persuasive, and an intelligent thinker. He was shaped (too much) by NeoPlatonism\u2019s distancing of God and by the belief that God was so distant that God could not possibly be human and still be God. God created through mediaries, and the Logos (Jesus Christ) was the mediary of creation. Hence, Arius was a dualist.<\/p>\n<p><\/p>\n<p><!--more--><br>\n<br><span class=\"mt-enclosure mt-enclosure-image\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Arius.jpg\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/jesuscreed\/imgs\/Arius.jpg\" class=\"mt-image-right\" style=\"margin: 0pt 0pt 20px 20px;float: right\" height=\"231\" width=\"249\"><\/span>Arius knew his Bible and focused on passages that seemed to imply something other than the deity of Christ, passages like Matt 19:17 (\u201cWhy do you ask me about who is good?\u201d) and John 14:28 (\u201cThe Father is greater than I\u201d) and Luke 22:42 (\u201cnot my will\u201d). The sum for Arius: \u201cThere was when he was not\u201d (as stated by Socrates the theologian).<\/p>\n<p>Arius was also a moral model of obedience, ascetic discipline, and he was also confident and persuasive. As Thompson says it, Arius \u201calmost won the day\u201d (19).<\/p>\n<p>Three A\u2019s: <b>A<\/b>rius was contested by his bishop <b>A<\/b>lexander and by a deacon <b>A<\/b>thanasius. Athanasius famously distinguished between \u201cgeneration\u201d and \u201ccreation\u201d and made \u201ceternal generation\u201d an internal dimension of God. The Son was therefore\u2026<\/p>\n<p><b>homo-ousios, and not<br>homoi-ousios.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>\u201cthe same substance\u201d and not<br>\u201cof similar substance.\u201d<br><br>\n<br>This framing of the relationship of Father and Son became classic orthodoxy. Arius\u2019 beliefs were deemed heresy. Our collective faith has affirmed that the Father and the Son are of the same substance.<\/p>\n<p>Does this matter?<\/p>\n<p>1. The gap between God and man cannot be bridged if the Son does not reach completely in both directions. The difference thus becomes between a Son who accomplishes salvation <b>for us<\/b> and a salvation we accomplish, at least in part, by ourselves.<\/p>\n<p>2. Arius denied the Fullness of God could be known and that all we know is the secondhand and indirect knowledge\/revelation of the created Son.<\/p>\n<p>3. Arius\u2019 God was a distant, insulated, non-incarnate God.<\/p>\n<p>4. Arius cannot explain John 1:1, 18; 1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:15-20; 2:9; Titus 2:13 and Rom 9:5.<\/p>\n<p>5. Phil 2:6-11 and John 20:19-29 are briefly examined.<\/p>\n<p>How do we preserve ourselves from Arianism? Thompson, a bit to my surprise, finds it (beside in the Scripture and teaching of the Church) in the experience of worship of Jesus Christ and in the personal encounter with him \u2014 \u201cIt\u2019s hard to worship a mere man, or even a demiurge\u201d (23).<\/p>\n<p>He admits: \u201cI can\u2019t pretend that I can get my mind fully around that doctrine. If I did, I guess I\u2019d be God. But I believe it.\u201d <\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What about Arius, the prototypical heretic? The 1st chp in B. Quash and M. Ward, Heresies and How to Avoid Them: Why It Matters What Christians Believe , written by Michael B. Thompson (Anglican Vice-Principal of Ridley Hall in Cambridge and professor). This book would be a wonderful primer for college students, a Bible study [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":197,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[337],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5368","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-theology"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Our Collective Faith and Heresies 2<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"What about Arius, the prototypical heretic? The 1st chp in B. Quash and M. Ward, Heresies and How to Avoid Them: Why It Matters What Christians Believe ,\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Our Collective Faith and Heresies 2\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"What about Arius, the prototypical heretic? The 1st chp in B. Quash and M. Ward, Heresies and How to Avoid Them: Why It Matters What Christians Believe ,\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Jesus Creed\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-03-18T05:27:38+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/jesuscreed\/imgs\/Heresies.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Scot McKnight\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Scot McKnight\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/\",\"name\":\"Our Collective Faith and Heresies 2\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2009-03-18T05:27:38+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2009-03-18T05:27:38+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252\"},\"description\":\"What about Arius, the prototypical heretic? The 1st chp in B. Quash and M. Ward, Heresies and How to Avoid Them: Why It Matters What Christians Believe ,\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Our Collective Faith and Heresies 2\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/\",\"name\":\"Jesus Creed\",\"description\":\"Scot McKnight on Jesus and orthodox faith in the 21st century\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252\",\"name\":\"Scot McKnight\",\"description\":\"Scot McKnight is a recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. McKnight, author of more than fifty books, is the Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary in Lombard, IL.\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/author\/scotmcknight\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Our Collective Faith and Heresies 2","description":"What about Arius, the prototypical heretic? The 1st chp in B. Quash and M. Ward, Heresies and How to Avoid Them: Why It Matters What Christians Believe ,","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Our Collective Faith and Heresies 2","og_description":"What about Arius, the prototypical heretic? The 1st chp in B. Quash and M. Ward, Heresies and How to Avoid Them: Why It Matters What Christians Believe ,","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/","og_site_name":"Jesus Creed","article_published_time":"2009-03-18T05:27:38+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/jesuscreed\/imgs\/Heresies.jpg"}],"author":"Scot McKnight","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Scot McKnight","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/","name":"Our Collective Faith and Heresies 2","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-03-18T05:27:38+00:00","dateModified":"2009-03-18T05:27:38+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252"},"description":"What about Arius, the prototypical heretic? The 1st chp in B. Quash and M. Ward, Heresies and How to Avoid Them: Why It Matters What Christians Believe ,","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/2009\/03\/18\/our-collective-faith-and-heresies-2\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Our Collective Faith and Heresies 2"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/","name":"Jesus Creed","description":"Scot McKnight on Jesus and orthodox faith in the 21st century","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/#\/schema\/person\/5919e847c58ffe6efb5899fb61797252","name":"Scot McKnight","description":"Scot McKnight is a recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. McKnight, author of more than fifty books, is the Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary in Lombard, IL.","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/author\/scotmcknight\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5368","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/197"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5368"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5368\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5368"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5368"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/jesuscreed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5368"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}