{"id":495,"date":"2009-09-16T20:46:00","date_gmt":"2009-09-16T20:46:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2009\/09\/karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins\/"},"modified":"2009-09-16T20:46:00","modified_gmt":"2009-09-16T20:46:00","slug":"karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2009\/09\/karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins.html","title":{"rendered":"Karen Armstrong vs. Richard Dawkins"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p><em>The Wall Street Journal<\/em> asked religion writer Karen Armstrong and uberatheist Richard Dawkins to answer the question \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/online.wsj.com\/article\/SB10001424052970203440104574405030643556324.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">where does evolution leave God?<\/a>\u201d Their responses forced me to ask some serious questions about my beliefs, but in the end I\u2019m even more confident I\u2019m on the right path for me.<\/p>\n<p>On first reading, I instinctively sided with Armstrong. She explains the difference in <em>logos<\/em> and <em>mythos<\/em>: how they are complementary and not oppositional, and how we need both to live lives that are materially rewarding and spiritually fulfilling. And she explains how modern-day fundamentalism that attempts to read myths as literal truths is a product of rationalist, Enlightenment thinking taken too far.<\/p>\n<p>Dawkins uses evolution to argue that not only is God unnecessary, God is so improbable as to be impossible. His facts are undeniable; his error is in assuming that the God of Western Monotheism is the only possible God. He goes so far as to say that those \u2013 like Armstrong \u2013 who worship a \u201cGod beyond God\u201d are really atheists.<\/p>\n<p>And yet\u2026 Dawkins is right when he says \u201cThe mainstream belief of the world\u2019s peoples is very clear. They believe in God, and that means they believe he exists in objective reality, just as surely as the Rock of Gibraltar exists.\u201d And while Armstrong is correct that the theologians and philosophers of antiquity understood \u201cit was only possible to speak about the ultimate reality \u2026 analogically,\u201d that\u2019s not how our pagan ancestors understood \u2013 or related to \u2013 their gods and goddesses.<\/p>\n<p>So where does that leave Pagans in the era of Darwin and Einstein? Where does that leave those of us who readily use science to refute the claims of \u201cYoung Earth Creationists\u201d but who also have had personal experiences of God, gods and goddesses that are undeniably real?<\/p>\n<p>For starters, Dawkins\u2019 case isn\u2019t as strong as it seems \u2013 he subtly changes the rules in the middle of the game. He uses science and reason to argue against one view of God but uses populism to argue against another view. Dawkins calls Armstrong (and by proxy, me) an atheist because she believes in a God who isn\u2019t the God Dawkins doesn\u2019t believe in. Huh?<\/p>\n<p>Throughout history, \u201cthe elites\u201d Dawkins ridicules have seen and discovered things ordinary people couldn\u2019t or wouldn\u2019t. Scientific knowledge was advanced by Aristotle, Galileo, and Newton, not by ordinary people. Religious knowledge was advanced by Lao Tzu, the Buddha, and Jesus, not by ordinary people. The works of these great people were validated by their results, not by their popularity.<\/p>\n<p>Science and reason have built a convincing (though far from certain) case that the God of Western Monotheism does not exist. But Armstrong\u2019s \u201cGod beyond God\u201d is either beyond science or beyond the capabilities of our current science \u2013 we have no way of knowing which. And there\u2019s still the matter of mystical religious experiences.<\/p>\n<p>I could rationalize my experiences down to fluctuations in brain chemistry, and if I am completely honest, I must admit that\u2019s a possibility. But something inside me, something at the core of my being, whispers that it\u2019s more \u2013 so I choose to believe I have experienced the Divine in several of its facets, forms and subdivisions. I find this belief to be meaningful, helpful, and relevant, so I act as though it\u2019s true, even though I can never be sure. That belief causes me to do my best to live in community with others, to honor the Earth and work for its care, to see the Holy and the Divine in women as well as men, and to stand in wonder and awe at the majesty of Nature and the miracle of Life.<\/p>\n<p>So where are Pagans in the era of Darwin and Einstein? We are where religious people have been in every age: responding to the human religious impulse and responding to the call of the Goddess in a manner that speaks to our specific needs in this particular place and time. We are under no illusion that we have discovered, invented, or been handed the \u201cOne True Faith.\u201d But for now, we are growing a tradition of belief and practice that is timely, relevant, and helpful.<\/p>\n<p>Blessed be!<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The Wall Street Journal asked religion writer Karen Armstrong and uberatheist Richard Dawkins to answer the question \u201cwhere does evolution leave God?\u201d Their responses forced me to ask some serious questions about my beliefs, but in the end I\u2019m even more confident I\u2019m on the right path for me. On first reading, I instinctively sided [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1129,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-495","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Karen Armstrong vs. Richard Dawkins<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The Wall Street Journal asked religion writer Karen Armstrong and uberatheist Richard Dawkins to answer the question \u201cwhere does evolution leave God?\u201d\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2009\/09\/karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Karen Armstrong vs. Richard Dawkins\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"The Wall Street Journal asked religion writer Karen Armstrong and uberatheist Richard Dawkins to answer the question \u201cwhere does evolution leave God?\u201d\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2009\/09\/karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"John Beckett\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-09-16T20:46:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"John Beckett\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"John Beckett\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2009\/09\/karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2009\/09\/karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins.html\",\"name\":\"Karen Armstrong vs. Richard Dawkins\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2009-09-16T20:46:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2009-09-16T20:46:00+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/#\/schema\/person\/b4c8980dc36f971434424c304ca429ad\"},\"description\":\"The Wall Street Journal asked religion writer Karen Armstrong and uberatheist Richard Dawkins to answer the question \u201cwhere does evolution leave God?\u201d\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2009\/09\/karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2009\/09\/karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2009\/09\/karen-armstrong-vs-richard-dawkins.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Karen Armstrong vs. Richard Dawkins\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/\",\"name\":\"John Beckett\",\"description\":\"Musings of a Druid, Pagan, and Unitarian Universalist.\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/#\/schema\/person\/b4c8980dc36f971434424c304ca429ad\",\"name\":\"John Beckett\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/0f50bfa2a79f70103847fe75540bb29c?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/0f50bfa2a79f70103847fe75540bb29c?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"John Beckett\"},\"description\":\"I grew up in Tennessee with the woods right outside my back door. 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