{"id":8578,"date":"2018-04-10T03:00:25","date_gmt":"2018-04-10T09:00:25","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/?p=8578"},"modified":"2018-04-04T18:50:13","modified_gmt":"2018-04-05T00:50:13","slug":"conversations-under-the-oaks-april-qa","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/2018\/04\/conversations-under-the-oaks-april-qa.html","title":{"rendered":"Conversations Under the Oaks: April Q&A"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Welcome to the fourth Conversations Under the Oaks, a monthly Q&A feature. I skipped March because of my travels, but I\u2019m back this month with your chance to ask me anything.<\/p>\n

Questions have been edited for brevity \u2013 names are used where I have explicit permission.<\/p>\n

Ana Simoes has questions about Druid teachings in two contemporary orders. \u201cI am currently working on both the Bardic Grade (OBOD) and the Dedicant Path (ADF). I am a polytheist, so the vision of the God\/Goddess duality makes no sense, nor does the Triple Goddess (maiden, mother, and crone). I also do not believe in the Three Worlds. <\/strong><\/p>\n

Another teaching I am finding a hard time working with is the Shining Ones. I tend to use what makes sense to me and respectfully discard what does not. What I would like to know was what is your input concerning the Shining Ones.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t believe in the Three Worlds<\/a> either. While the duotheist idea of God and Goddess provides a gender balance lacking in monotheism, too frequently (though not always) it degenerates into gender essentialism. And while there are numerous Triple Goddesses in our ancient traditions (the Morrigan<\/a> being one of them, though She may be even more complex than that) the whole maiden-mother-crone thing is a 20th<\/sup> century invention.<\/p>\n

The good news is that neither OBOD<\/a> nor ADF<\/a> demand fidelity to orthodox beliefs or interpretations. OBOD in particular is intentionally vague about the nature of the Gods and the universe. OBOD\u2019s greatest value lies in the set of spiritual practices it teaches, and the journey of self-discovery and service those practices promote. OBOD is a set of spiritual technologies that will work in the context of almost any religion or religious approach.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
ADF\u2019s Cosmos Sigil \u2013 Trout Lake Abbey, Washington<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

ADF is much less vague about cosmology and theology, but as they like to say, they are orthopraxic (right action) rather than orthodoxic (right belief), and there is plenty of room for differing ideas and interpretations. As a polytheist I\u2019ve always felt very much at home in ADF, and my personal liturgy draws heavily from ADF\u2019s Core Order of Ritual.<\/p>\n

And that brings us to your question about the Shining Ones. Let\u2019s start with this definition<\/a> by former Archdruid Ian Corrigan:<\/p>\n

The Shining Ones are the eldest, mightiest and wisest of the beings in the Great Weaving. The First Mother and First Father, the Triple Kingship and the Goddesses of Sovereignty, Inspiration and Bounty; the powers of Love, Artisanry and Healing; the Child of Light and Shadow; all are reflected in the many cultural pantheons of the Celtic peoples.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

That sounds like Gods to me.<\/p>\n

My understanding is that ADF\u2019s founders wanted to avoid the baggage around the \u201cG-word.\u201d But also, if you read the Celtic tales, you\u2019ll find some of the \u201celdest, mightiest and wisest\u201d described as \u201cshining ones.\u201d<\/p>\n

Is that because the Tuatha De Danann are part of the Fae, some of whom are also described as \u201cshining\u201d? Is it because the Christian monks who first committed these stories to writing would not call them Gods and grabbed a convenient term instead? Or perhaps our Celtic ancestors saw the various spiritual beings as existing on a spectrum rather than in distinct categories (an idea I\u2019m rather fond of). We don\u2019t know, and likely we never will.<\/p>\n

But when I hear \u201cShining Ones\u201d in ADF ritual, I think \u201cGods\u201d and keep moving.<\/p>\n

Also, when going through your Druid path studies, was there any information that clashed with your Pagan beliefs? How did you cope with that?<\/strong><\/p>\n

That happened numerous times, although none of them come to mind\u2026 which should tell you something about how much I worried about these \u201cclashes.\u201d Again, neither OBOD nor ADF demand fidelity to a creed or statement of belief.<\/p>\n

When I come across new and\/or challenging ideas and concepts, I give them fair consideration. OBOD was my training as a Druid, and I wanted to absorb everything they taught, even the parts I knew I wouldn\u2019t agree with (such as much of the Anglican-influenced material of the Druid Revival). This is my heritage as a Druid, and I want to understand it as fully as I can.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Avebury \u2013 2016<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

A few times I decided the OBOD concepts were right and my own thinking was wrong. Most times I simply sought to understand it without judging it. And a few times I said \u201cno, that\u2019s flat-out wrong.\u201d<\/p>\n

So I think using what makes sense and discarding what doesn\u2019t is a good approach. Just make sure you learn the material that is part of your heritage, and that you don\u2019t dismiss challenging ideas without giving them fair consideration.<\/p>\n

An anonymous reader asks \u201cI was discussing polytheism with someone and they asked if, although each God is their own separate being, there is one that rules them all, or if there is a source. Do you have an opinion on either of these things?\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

Is there a source? If you believe the Universe was created then there must be a source. Our many creation myths (including the Big Bang, which is both a myth and a scientific theory) require either primordial materials or a creator or both. But these myths tend to be rather vague as to where said materials or creators came from, and the creator Gods tend to die or fade away or be conquered by their children. Think of the Titans being defeated by the Olympians, or of Ra growing old and Isis taking his power.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Isis (Auset)<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

On the other hand, if you believe the Universe is a steady state then the Gods have always existed and there is no source.<\/p>\n

Either way, the source \u2013 if it even exists \u2013 is difficult if not impossible for humans to relate to and to communicate with. But we can and do relate to and communicate with the many Gods. Those relationships are the focus of my polytheism.<\/p>\n

Is there one God who rules them all? We have no indication \u2013 from lore or from UPG \u2013 that there is a Supreme God over all the many deities from all the many cultures of the world.<\/p>\n

Many of the individual pantheons are hierarchical: Zeus is King of the Olympians. The Tuatha De Danann have had several kings, including Nuada, Bres, and Lugh. The Morrigan\u2019s name translates as \u201cthe Great Queen,\u201d though exactly what She\u2019s queen of is somewhat uncertain. But their stories make it clear that like human kings and queens, while their power is great it is far from absolute.<\/p>\n

Protestant Christianity \u2013 the dominant religion and religious worldview of our culture \u2013 places an inordinate emphasis on only worshipping the \u201cSupreme God.\u201d This concept is decidedly unhelpful in polytheist religions. As polytheists, we worship many divine beings, and we honor many other beings who are not divine\u2026 and we sometimes speculate about just how useful that \u201cdivine \/ not divine\u201d categorization really is.<\/p>\n

Anne of <\/strong>The Gods Are Bored<\/strong><\/a> has a problem. \u201cI have a very hard time uprooting seedling trees. Can you devise a prayer or devotion I can say before, during, or after this process?\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019m reminded of the \u201cscientific\u201d definition of a weed: a plant that\u2019s in a place unfavorable to humans. We have no problem uprooting ragweed and crabgrass, but many of us of a Druid persuasion feel differently about trees. We know we\u2019re ending what could be a long life of beauty and power.<\/p>\n

Could<\/em> be.<\/p>\n

Different species have different reproductive strategies. Some \u2013 like humans \u2013 produce offspring one at a time (for the most part). Each individual is important to the survival of the species. Others \u2013 like dogs and cats \u2013 have small litters, knowing that some of them will die before they\u2019re old enough to reproduce. And others \u2013 like frogs \u2013 lay hundreds of eggs, knowing that the majority of them will die early, but a critical few will live.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
frogs and eggs at Newgrange<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

An oak tree can produce thousands of acorns in a year. Most of those will be food for squirrels and other animals. Some will sprout and take root. Some of those will end up being food, some won\u2019t get enough water, and some will grow in areas where there\u2019s a strong competition for sunlight. Only a tiny fraction will actually become trees.<\/p>\n

If you didn\u2019t uproot them (and something didn\u2019t eat them), odds are good one of them would outgrow the others and starve them into a sunless death. Yes, you\u2019re killing a potential tree, but if you didn\u2019t do it, the odds are very likely that something else would.<\/p>\n

Still, we recognize that in the moment, a seedling is a living being \u2013 a person for those of us with animist views. I see uprooting a seedling less like uprooting ragweed and more like killing an animal or a plant for food. We sacrifice an individual for our own needs, but \u2013 if we are ethical\u2026 and if we have any sense \u2013 we commit to insuring that the species will continue.<\/p>\n

So I think a prayer for uprooted seedlings should be very similar to a prayer for a butchered chicken or for harvested grain. Something like this:<\/p>\n

Hail to you, seedling trees.<\/em>
\nBecause of your sacrifice, these (trees, flowers, grasses, etc. \u2013 whatever is growing where the seedling is) can grow and thrive. <\/em>
\nYour family continues (point toward an existing tree of the same species, or if there are none nearby, name a place where they grow). <\/em>
\nMay your journey to the Otherworld be safe and pleasant. <\/em>
\nThank you for your sacrifice<\/em>
\nHail and farewell.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The deepest questions we\u2019ve had so far for the Q&A: duotheism, triple goddesses, and the three worlds, the Shining Ones, the hierarchy of the Gods, and what to do when you have to uproot a seedling.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1129,"featured_media":8587,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1101],"tags":[293,947,124,4,5,8],"class_list":["post-8578","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-foundations-and-context","tag-adf","tag-druidry","tag-obod","tag-pagan","tag-paganism","tag-polytheism"],"yoast_head":"\nConversations Under the Oaks: April Q&A<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The deepest questions we\u2019ve had so far for the Q&A: duotheism, triple goddesses, and the three worlds, the Shining Ones, the hierarchy of the Gods, and what to do when you have to uproot a seedling.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" 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I live in the Dallas \u2013 Fort Worth area and I earn my keep as an engineer.","sameAs":["http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/author\/johnbeckett"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8578","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1129"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=8578"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8578\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/8587"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=8578"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=8578"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/johnbeckett\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=8578"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}