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<\/a><\/p>\nFormer Patheos Pagan blogger Aine Llewellyn asks \u201cHow do we handle, in a positive fashion, when a polytheist has a theological disagreement with another polytheist? To specify, I am thinking of when someone doesn\u2019t consider the Gods I worship to be Gods. Do we just live and let live? Do we hash it out?\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n It all depends on context and forum.<\/p>\n Any religion that cannot be questioned is a weak religion, whether that\u2019s \u201cthese are our sacred texts and questioning them is blasphemy!\u201d or \u201cthis is my truth and you can\u2019t criticize it.\u201d If someone disagrees with me thoughtfully and politely, I\u2019ll do my best to respond thoughtfully and politely. Challenge and response is how we advance our religious thinking, both individually and as a movement.<\/p>\n If at the end of the day we still don\u2019t agree, then at least we understand why we don\u2019t agree, and that\u2019s OK. Contemporary polytheism is a movement, not an institution \u2013 we don\u2019t have to agree on everything.<\/p>\n Now, if someone is being rude or dismissive, I\u2019m not likely to pay any attention to them. If they\u2019re factually wrong (i.e. \u2013 claiming I said something I didn\u2019t say or otherwise mischaracterizing my position) I may rebut that, just to have the record clear. But I have too much work to do to spend time responding to trolls and sea lions.<\/p>\n I\u2019ve seen a lot on what to avoid when looking for a group or teaching circle. I\u2019d love to see your thoughts on what to look for. How does one tell if a group is healthy? <\/strong><\/p>\n The most important thing to look for is whether they do what they say they\u2019re going to do. Do their events happen as scheduled? Do their members show up to their events? How often they hold events isn\u2019t nearly as important as whether or not the events they plan happen as scheduled. Emergencies happen, but if \u201cemergencies\u201d happen on a regular basis, it\u2019s probably not a healthy group. Healthy groups have their acts together.<\/p>\n Do the members get along? It\u2019s not reasonable to expect everyone to be best friends, but if they seem to like each other \u2013 and especially if they can disagree without getting upset \u2013 it\u2019s probably a good group.<\/p>\n Is there substance to their work? Different groups have levels of knowledge and expertise, but does what they say match up with what you\u2019ve learned from reliable sources? Do they admit when they don\u2019t know something? Do they spend their time doing Pagan stuff or do they waste time talking about how bad Christians are?<\/p>\n And do their areas of interest line up with yours? If you\u2019re looking for Nature spirituality, the best Thelemic group in the world isn\u2019t going work for you. Early on my Pagan journey I walked away from a very competent group of Kabbalists because I realized that Kabbala wasn\u2019t my calling.<\/p>\n How can you be positively visible when you live in a smallish community that is overwhelmingly Christian. Trying to engage with my community in a positive way, while staying true to my faith, is proving problematic. <\/strong><\/p>\n Small communities can be difficult for outsiders of any description. The only way around that is to not be an outsider, and that can be difficult if churches are the center of social activities. Can you get involved in civic groups? Sports groups, either for adults or for kids? Charitable organizations? Anything so people can get to know you as a person, rather than as \u201cthe Pagan\u201d or \u201cthe Witch.\u201d<\/p>\n How visible do you need to be? I don\u2019t hide who and what I am at my paying job, but I don\u2019t advertise it either. I work for a large corporation \u2013 loud expressions of religion (any religion) are discouraged. That makes for a more tolerant work environment.<\/p>\n I encourage you to think hard about what your religion requires you to do. Remember that being a Pagan and doing Pagan things is more important than advertising for Paganism. Be true to your Gods, your path, and most of all, to yourself. But don\u2019t feel like you have to change people\u2019s hearts and minds.<\/p>\n In my experience, most non-fundamentalists can understand things like ancestor veneration and Nature spirituality. Magic is a useful skill, but you never know who\u2019s going to show up on your door asking for favors. But polytheism is hard for people to accept. I covered some of this in a Letter To My Christian Friends<\/a>. Be careful and deliberate with what you make visible.<\/p>\n I\u2019m sure some readers are saying \u201cscrew them \u2013 be Pagan and make them deal with it.\u201d Some people have the temperament for conflict. I don\u2019t. I\u2019m going to do my best to get along, particularly with matters of style rather than substance. I can deal with being the outsider a lot easier than I can deal with confrontation.<\/p>\n But at the end of the day, we have to be true to our Gods, our ancestors, and our traditions, even if that\u2019s difficult and unpleasant. The cost of conformity<\/a> is your soul.<\/p>\n Can there be people who are polytheist and not Pagan? And is it true that every Pagan is a pantheist?<\/strong><\/p>\n Polytheism has a simple definition: the religious regard for many real Gods. Paganism is a movement, and movements don\u2019t have definitions. They have centers<\/a>. You\u2019re not in or out of a movement \u2013 you\u2019re closer to or further away from the center(s).<\/p>\n I know several polytheists who say \u201cmy tradition doesn\u2019t come out of the Pagan movement \u2013 don\u2019t call me a Pagan.\u201d I don\u2019t see the need to make that distinction, but I support the right of self-identification, so I won\u2019t call them Pagans. On the other hand, the African Traditional Religions are polytheist, but they are from an entirely different line than contemporary Western Paganism. It would be inaccurate to lump them together.<\/p>\n But my own polytheism is Pagan<\/a>.<\/p>\n Pantheism is a different religious idea. It\u2019s usually defined as the belief that \u201cGod is all and all is God\u201d (though that uses monotheist language to express a pantheist idea). Many Pagans are pantheists, and the pantheist idea that \u201ceverything is connected\u201d and \u201call is one\u201d are popular with many Pagans.<\/p>\n But not with all. There was a time when I considered myself a pantheist, in addition to a Pagan and a polytheist. Now, if I am a pantheist, it\u2019s at a level so high it has little day to day impact on my world. My focus is on the many Gods.<\/p>\n Mainly, remember that any time you start by saying \u201call Pagans\u2026\u201d whatever comes next is probably going to be wrong.<\/p>\n I would like to hear a Pagan author talk about the trauma that past faith can have on those who convert to Paganism, how that influences their perceptions of Paganism and religion in general, and what if anything can we as Pagans in leadership positions do to help alleviate that pain. <\/strong><\/p>\n I\u2019ve written about this at length \u2013 it\u2019s one of the major themes of The Path of Paganism<\/em><\/a>. But my writing has always been directed at individuals who want to recover and move on<\/a>. How to help others do this is a related but different question.<\/p>\n Most people who leave a religion do so because something drives them out. Religious ties tend to be strong, even if they\u2019re more cultural than spiritual. It takes something to break them, and that something is often traumatic. Sometimes the trauma is recognized and sometimes it\u2019s hidden, but either way it\u2019s usually deep.<\/p>\n We who are in Pagan leadership positions are priests, magicians, ritualists, and such. We are not psychologists. If someone needs mental health care, refer to them to a mental health professional<\/a>.<\/p>\n The first and most important thing we can do is to provide a deep, viable, Pagan<\/em> alternative to whatever religion they left. We can\u2019t offer the physical resources of a large, well-funded church, but we can offer something more important \u2013 a strong Pagan religious experience. In my experience \u2013 both with others and with myself \u2013 bad religion can\u2019t be washed away. It has to be crowded out. Good experiences replace the bad experiences. Show people something deep, meaningful, magical, and real. And don\u2019t just show it to them \u2013 let them touch it for themselves.<\/p>\n Help them make a clean break<\/a> with their old religion. Don\u2019t use Christian terms for Pagan concepts. Don\u2019t use Christian myths and metaphors. Our Pagan traditions have our own stories and traditions. Draw on them. Don\u2019t focus on the bad things other religions are doing \u2013 focus on the good things<\/a> Pagans are doing.<\/p>\n I can\u2019t do anything with those who are so damaged they want nothing to do with organized religion. I can love and support them as friends, and I can show that there\u2019s a good, healthy alternative, but if they\u2019re not willing to get involved, I can\u2019t make them. At the same time, I\u2019m not going to let them stop me from building the strong Pagan groups and traditions I\u2019m called to build.<\/p>\n If one offends a God or spirit (e.g. one of the fair folk), what are your thoughts on what can be done to make amends and re-establish peace between the offender and spirit?<\/strong><\/p>\n This is a good question that has no easy answers and no universal answers. What works fine in some cases will make things worse in others. Every situation must be approached mindfully and carefully, with negotiations, consultations, and divinations. Oftentimes what is done cannot be undone and the consequences cannot be avoided.<\/p>\n But with that monster truck sized caveat, here are some general suggestions.<\/p>\n In my experience, Gods tend to be rather lenient with beginners. They understand that we don\u2019t grow up in a polytheist environment where proper religious behavior is both taught and modeled. Mistakes made from ignorance are usually not a big deal \u2013 at least the first time. As you learn and grow, more is expected and negligence is tolerated less and less. And regardless of how long you\u2019ve been doing this, offenses made from arrogance and entitlement are almost never overlooked.<\/p>\n The Fair Folk, on the other hand, tend to stick to the letter of the law regardless of age, experience, knowledge, or extenuating circumstances. Offend them and they will settle the score.<\/p>\n If you realize you offended a God or spirit, first do some research. \u201cI\u2019m sorry, I won\u2019t do it again\u201d may be a good start, but it is rarely all that is needed. Whatever you did wrong, make it right.<\/p>\n Figure out exactly what you did wrong and why it\u2019s wrong. Remember the Gods are individuals: what Dionysus finds amusing, Apollo may find offensive, and vice versa. See if there are any references in the relevant lore \u2013 what did our ancestors do in similar situations?<\/p>\n You may need divination to get to the bottom of things. If you can find a priest of the deity in question, they can likely help. They probably can\u2019t make it go away, but they can help you figure out how to make it right. That likely will mean sacrifices, in any and all senses of the term.<\/p>\n Don\u2019t look to Christianity for guidance. Confession isn\u2019t enough. Begging for forgiveness isn\u2019t likely to accomplish much. Figure out what you did wrong, figure out what you need to do to make it right, then go do it.<\/p>\n That approach works pretty well with humans too.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n As a Pagan how do you feel about angels? I always feel conflicted personally as they don\u2019t fit in with the Druidry I practice \u2013 it feels like trying to Christianise an earth based religion.<\/strong><\/p>\n I have to answer that question on two levels.<\/p>\n I believe angels exist. They\u2019re part of the religious environment of the ancient Near East and are attested to in countless encounters over the centuries. As a polytheist, I need not deny the religious beings and structures of other religions just because I don\u2019t worship them in mine.<\/p>\n Angels are part of the magical tradition that gave rise to the modern Pagan movement, and they\u2019ve carried over into some Pagan practices. And of course, they\u2019re very popular in New Age circles.<\/p>\n But as a Pagan of Celtic heritage and calling, I choose not to work with angels. They\u2019re not part of my Druid tradition and as I pointed out in the question above about religious trauma, I needed to make a clean break with Christianity.<\/p>\n I reject all attempts to combine and conflate angels with the fae and other Otherworldly beings of the Northwest European traditions. That erases the uniqueness and dignity of the fae (something I don\u2019t advise doing under any circumstances).<\/p>\n So are angels real? Of course. Do I work with them in my own practice? No. Others must make their own decisions, but my strong preference is to keep Paganism as Pagan as possible.<\/p>\n All of the Pagan mythologies that I\u2019m aware of, especially the European ones, have a strong emphasis upon heroic individuals. How does one use these stories to help develop communities of belonging when most of them don\u2019t focus on communal life?<\/strong><\/p>\n I encourage you to go back and read those stories again. Yes, they emphasize the mighty deeds of heroic individuals. But why were they attempting these deeds in the first place? Usually, it was to defend their homes and their people, and to raise the standing of their kith and kin.<\/p>\n Cormac wanted the Silver Branch to keep peace at his court. When he realized he had traded his family for it, he went in search of them. Lugh, the Dadga, the Morrigan, and many others fought mightily so they could secure Ireland from the Fomorians. Bran had his head cut off so he could continue conversing with his compatriots, and when he finally fell silent it was buried on the White Hill to ward off invasions.<\/p>\n Ancient communities needed heroic individuals to do the heroic things that made community possible. Our contemporary communities do too.<\/p>\n How do we handle leadership transitions in Pagan churches so that those who have given service feel valued and those who want to serve are listened to? <\/strong><\/p>\n Your use of the term \u201cPagan churches\u201d outs you as an ADF member. I agree with the ADF founders\u2019 goal of creating a Pagan religious institution, but I wish they had found a different term for it. Or, in the spirit of the RDNA<\/a>, if they had made one up.<\/p>\n Whether we call our Pagan religious institutions churches or orders or just groups, the question of leadership transition is valid and important. And it\u2019s one that I\u2019m personally involved with. Last year I stepped away from formal leadership<\/a> in Denton CUUPS after 12 years as Coordinating Officer. I gave the membership six months\u2019 notice that I wasn\u2019t going to run for a 13th<\/sup> term and that I wasn\u2019t going to hand-pick my successor. So far so good.<\/p>\n Leadership can be a thankless task. Ordinary members sometimes (often) don\u2019t recognize the huge amount of work necessary to keep a group up and running. That\u2019s even more true in a large organization like ADF, where most members never see the Mother Grove (the Board of Directors) and only speak up when the leaders do something the members don\u2019t like\u2026 and in any group above coven size any decision is going to rub some people the wrong way. Leaders need thick skins and a commitment to a vision for the group strong enough to sustain them when the inevitable criticism comes.<\/p>\n There is no substitute for a shared vision. If we agree on where we want to go, then even passionate disagreements over how to get there can end with everyone supporting the group\u2019s decisions. With a shared vision, new members know exactly what they\u2019re joining, and those who don\u2019t like that vision know they\u2019ll be happier in a different group.<\/p>\n Some highly progressive groups (some religious, some political) like to say \u201cwe\u2019re all about process\u201d \u2013 they think that by emphasizing consensus and the democratic process, everyone will feel like they\u2019ve been heard and feel like they\u2019re valued. While we should listen to everyone, the unifying effect of being heard can\u2019t hold a candle to the unifying effect of a shared vision.<\/p>\n This is true in organizations of all sizes, whether you\u2019re as small as Denton CUUPS or as large as ADF\u2026 or if you\u2019re as large as a major American political party\u2026<\/p>\n There are many ways to handle the mechanics of leadership transition \u2013 pick the one that\u2019s right for your group. But transitions are far more pleasant and far more effective when both the outgoing and incoming leaders are part of a shared vision for the group.<\/p>\n When you travel on pilgrimage, do you give offerings or prayers to spirits of the road or travel spirits of any kinds? If so, how do you do so?<\/strong><\/p>\n You\u2019re the first person who\u2019s ever mentioned travel spirits or spirits of the road to me. So, no \u2013 but I very well may do so in the future.<\/p>\n Before I leave, I pray and make offerings to the Gods and spirits I\u2019m allied with, asking for safe and timely travels, for protection for my home while I\u2019m gone, and that my experience on the journey be what it needs to be.<\/p>\n When I arrive in a new land, I make offerings to the spirits of the place. I introduce myself and ask for safe passage through the land. I do the same when I\u2019m visiting sacred sites. Usually I offer water \u2013 since it\u2019s what I\u2019m carrying \u2013 though for special occasions I\u2019ll get a small bottle of whiskey or mead. If I go to a place where votive offerings are appropriate I always offer an American coin or two \u2013 a tangible connection from my land to the land I\u2019m visiting.<\/p>\n And then I offer prayers and offerings of thanksgiving when I get home.<\/p>\n Why do well-studied Pagans dismiss those who have found Paganism through experiences and meditative introspection\/exterior forces? I know it\u2019s difficult to explain how I know X or Y to be true to someone because I found it in the void or inside but why am I \u201cless\u201d for that? It took me about 2 years to even come to understanding of what I see of the under-workings of the world. It\u2019s really hard to engage in those discussions when faced with immediate judgement. I don\u2019t pretend to be an expert or anything. <\/strong><\/p>\n Speculating about other people\u2019s motivation is always difficult. But in general I see two reasons.<\/p>\n One is that academically inclined Pagans tend to have a bias for academic sources. They favor known history and lore, and research that meets rigorous standards. There\u2019s certainly nothing wrong with that, so long as it doesn\u2019t cause them to dismiss other sources\u2026 but sometimes it does.<\/p>\n The second reason is that there is still so much garbage passing for factual information (and not just in Paganism, but that\u2019s the topic of this conversation). After you hear \u201cthe Morrigan is a Sex Goddess<\/a>\u201d for the eighteenth time, you tend to be skeptical of any claims that aren\u2019t in alignment with tradition and lore.<\/p>\n Earlier this week Angelo Nasios had a very good post on Agora titled Hearth of Hellenism: Personal Gnosis and Tradition<\/a>. He linked to a post I wrote in 2015 The Lore vs. UPG \u2013 A False Dichotomy<\/a>. Both of these posts make a similar argument \u2013 a healthy religion needs both lore and personal gnosis. Or as Angelo put it in his piece<\/p>\n When UPG is the sole guiding principle for someone without any cultural context, that is appropriation and it is damaging to the cultural source from which the gods are expressed in \u2026 When we side ourselves too far on tradition and lore we run the risk of killing the tradition in the long run because we fossilize the tradition.<\/p>\n The task at hand is to know the tradition as best as we can so we can make sense of UPG in the most effective way that is meaningful to the individual without altering tradition with every new experience.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n The comments to Aine Llewellyn\u2019s question on theological disagreements also apply here. Honest questions and challenges are good for our religious integrity. Being rude or dismissive is not.<\/p>\n<\/a><\/p>\n<\/a><\/p>\n<\/a><\/a><\/p>\n<\/a>