{"id":38612,"date":"2018-09-10T07:42:05","date_gmt":"2018-09-10T11:42:05","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/lovejoyfeminism\/?p=38612"},"modified":"2018-09-10T07:42:05","modified_gmt":"2018-09-10T11:42:05","slug":"the-evolution-of-young-earth-creationist-flood-models","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/lovejoyfeminism\/2018\/09\/the-evolution-of-young-earth-creationist-flood-models.html","title":{"rendered":"The Evolution of Young Earth Creationist Flood Models"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Growing up in a young earth creationist home, I was taught the vapor canopy model. According to this model, when God \u201cdivided the wars which were under the firmament [i.e. the sky] from the waters which were above the firmament\u201d in Genesis 1, he created a canopy of water above the atmosphere which created a greenhouse environment on earth\u2014excess oxygen enabled humans to live for hundreds of years while similar effects sustained the rich vegetation needed for dinosaurs and other massive land mammals to survive.<\/p>\n<p>During the flood, this water fell to earth as torrential rain. After the flood, the atmosphere was different. Gone was the excess oxygen, and human life spans began to shrink. Gone was the hothouse environment that had sustained massive quantities of tropical vegetation, and the dinosaurs struggled to survive in this new climate. Many young earth creationists, though, have recently abandoned this model. Given my recent musings about whether creationists (like actual scientists) change their minds to follow the data, this change is worth exploring.<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s have a look at an\u00a0<i>Answers in\u00a0Genesis\u00a0<\/i>article by Bodie Hodge titled <a href=\"https:\/\/answersingenesis.org\/environmental-science\/the-collapse-of-the-canopy-model\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Collapse of the Canopy Model<\/a>. In his article, Hodge sets the groundwork for his discussion as follows:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>In brief, the canopy models gained popularity thanks to the work of Joseph Dillow, and many creationists have since researched various aspects of this scientific model. The canopy model was developed from an interpretation of the \u201cwaters above\u201d in <cite class=\"bibleref\"><a class=\"rtBibleRef decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Gen%201.6%E2%80%937\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-reference=\"Gen 1.6\u20137\" data-version=\"esv\" data-purpose=\"bible-reference\">Genesis 1:6\u20137<\/a><\/cite> when discussing the firmament (or expanse).<cite class=\"bibleref\"><\/cite><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><em><cite class=\"bibleref\"><a class=\"rtBibleRef decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Gen%201.6%E2%80%937\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-reference=\"Gen 1.6\u20137\" data-version=\"esv\" data-purpose=\"bible-reference\">Genesis 1:6\u20137<\/a>\u00a0<\/cite>Then God said, \u201cLet there be a firmament (expanse) in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.\u201d Thus God made the firmament (expanse), and divided the waters which were under the firmament (expanse) from the waters which were above the firmament (expanse); and it was so.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>From these verses, scientific models were developed and modified to help deal with problems that arose. These models included ideas about the earth\u2019s temperature, atmospheric color, as well as oxygen concentration (to attempt to explain <a href=\"https:\/\/answersingenesis.org\/bible-characters\/ancient-patriarchs-in-genesis\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">ancient man\u2019s longevity<\/a>).<\/p>\n<p>The proposed models have this canopy fading into history at the time of the Flood. Researchers thought it could have provided at least some of the water for the Flood and was associated with the \u201cwindows of heaven\u201d mentioned along with the fountains of the great deep at the onset of the Flood (<cite class=\"bibleref\"><a class=\"rtBibleRef decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Gen%207.11\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-reference=\"Gen 7.11\" data-version=\"esv\" data-purpose=\"bible-reference\">Genesis 7:11<\/a><\/cite>).<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I\u2019ll be honest\u2014I find creationists\u2019 abandoning of this model somewhat surprising. As a teen, I found this model compelling because of the way it applied scientific-sounding explanations to Biblical proclamations. This is perhaps the core of what young earth creationists like Answers in Genesis do: they start with \u201cit happened like this because the Bible says so\u201d but they rarely end there. Instead, they throw in some science.<\/p>\n<p>Note the reference to ancient man\u2019s longevity\u2014that link <a href=\"https:\/\/answersingenesis.org\/bible-characters\/ancient-patriarchs-in-genesis\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">goes to a page<\/a> that explains that Adam lived 930 years, and that his grandson and great-great-grandsoon lived over 900 years as well. This is all taken as settled fact, because the Bible says it. Still, young earth creationists are aware that this sounds silly\u2014so they add in scientific explanations for how people <em>really, truly<\/em> could have lived that long back then.<\/p>\n<p>Maybe the atmosphere was different! That sounds like it could matter, right? This whole waters above the earth thing sounds significant\u2014maybe <em>that<\/em> could have changed the atmosphere! The Bible references the \u201cwindows of heaven\u201d opening when the deluge began\u2014a vapor canopy would certainly fit!<\/p>\n<p>Young earth creationism does not assert that the events in Genesis 1 literally occurred merely because the Bible says they did. They also claim to have science on their side. Young earth creationist organizations do not ask people to choose between the Bible and science. Instead, they assert that people <em>can have both<\/em>. And young earth creationist organizations very good at making their science-sounding arguments sound cogent to a layperson.<\/p>\n<p>Why drop a model I found so convincing growing up? The vapor canopy explained everything, from the flood to the first humans\u2019 ridiculously long lives to why huge land mammals like dinosaurs lived then and not today. Hodge says there was a problem with the computer models\u2014yes, young earth creationists run computer models. But I\u2019ll let Hodge explain:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Currently, the pitfalls of the canopy model have grown to such an extent that most researchers have abandoned the model. For example, if a canopy existed and collapsed at the time of the Flood to supply the rainfall, the latent heat of condensation would have boiled the atmosphere! And a viable canopy would not have had enough water vapor in it to sustain 40 days and nights of torrential global rain.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The concern about the \u201clatent heat of condensation\u201d that would have \u201cboiled the atmosphere\u201d is fascinating because it is also wildly selective. Answers in Genesis even today holds that\u2014and I am not exaggerating here\u2014the continents \u201ccrashed\u201d into each other during the flood, creating huge mountain ranges in a matter of weeks before separating again and moving thousands of miles to their current position within a few hundred years.<\/p>\n<p>One wonders. How much energy would be released by continents <em>slamming into each other<\/em> hard enough to create mountain ranges <em>in a matter of weeks?\u00a0<\/em>Could we get some computer models in here?<\/p>\n<p>Here is <a href=\"https:\/\/answersingenesis.org\/geology\/plate-tectonics\/noahs-lost-world\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">how Andrew Snelling described<\/a>\u00a0young earth creationist plate tectonics in an article published by Answers in Genesis in 2004:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>When we remove the Atlantic Ocean and put the pieces back together again, we find a long mountain chain that ran from North America through Europe. The problem is that this chain, known as the Appalachian-Caledonian mountains, is made out of fossil-bearing sediments that were deposited earlier during the Flood. The only known way to form a mountain chain like this is for one continent to collide with another continent. This means that the Flood had to deposit fossil-bearing layers in North America and Europe before they crashed into each other to form Pangaea.<\/p>\n<p>Thus Pangaea cannot have been the pre-Flood supercontinent that Noah lived on. It could only have been a temporary merger of continental fragments during the Flood, lasting no more than a few weeks. Pangaea was a supercontinent during the Flood, but it was completely underwater.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/answersingenesis.org\/geology\/plate-tectonics\/did-the-continents-split-apart-in-the-days-of-peleg\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">another Answers in Genesis article<\/a>, Snelling writes that the Mountains of Ararat that Noah landed on were formed during the flood\u2014a flood that lasted only a year. In other words, over the course of a year and during a catastrophic global flood, tectonic plates and continents separated, collided with enough force to create mountains, and then moved thousands of miles away from each other.<\/p>\n<p>Assuming that all of the initial separating and colliding and driving up of mountains occurred in the first half of the year, North America would have had about six months, or 180 days, to move 3,700 miles away from Europe. That is a pace of about twenty miles a day\u2014about the pace of a meandering walk.<\/p>\n<p>Is Snelling aware that such motion would have been catastrophic (if possible at all)? In a word, <em>yes<\/em>. Some young earth creationists have long suggested that the continents split apart in the days of Peleg, several hundred years after Noah\u2019s Flood, because the biblical record of his genealogy states that \u201cin his day the earth was divided\u201d (others argued that this referenced the Tower of Babel and separation of languages). Snelling argues that the note in Peleg\u2019s genealogy could not have referred to the division of the continents, because science.<\/p>\n<p>That sort of dramatic movement of continental plates, Snelling writes, would have resulted in catastrophic global tsunamis that would have overwhelmed civilization, and yet there is no mention of such in the Bible. Therefore, when Noah\u2019s Flood ended, it must have left the continents more or less where they are now.<\/p>\n<p>Over the course of a single year, then, the continental plates that formed the original original supercontinent Noah lived on broke apart; collided once again with enough force to create mountains; formed a temporary second supercontinent (Pangea); broke apart again; and moved thousands of miles to their current location.<\/p>\n<p>And Noah\u2019s Ark somehow survived all that.\u00a0But we can\u2019t have the energy released by torrential rain from a vapor canopy boiling off the atmosphere now can we. Does this seem oddly selective to anyone else?<\/p>\n<p>Snelling knows this level of tectonic activity would have been catastrophic. (I\u2019m not even sure <em>the earth<\/em> would have survived). Snelling solves this problem by bracketing all such tectonic activity away in an already catastrophic event (Noah\u2019s Flood). Where are the computer models <em>now?\u00a0<\/em>I doubt they would be so sanguine.<\/p>\n<p>By the by, the claim now is that the mantle ripping apart vaporized much of the oceans, leading to huge masses of steam, which conveniently explains how it could rain for forty days and forty nights.<\/p>\n<p>I see strong similarities between the two models. Both try to explain, scientifically, the events of Noah\u2019s Flood. I am going to make a suggestion, however. I don\u2019t think young earth creationists changed models because they honestly found that the vapor canopy model was not scientifically workable, because I don\u2019t buy that the plate tectonics model is any more feasible. I think the change had far more to do with the Bible than science.<\/p>\n<p>Interestingly, Hodge practically admits this:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Aside from the scientific analysis, there may be a much bigger issue at play: if the canopy really was part of earth\u2019s atmosphere, then all the stars, sun, and moon would have been created within the earth\u2019s atmosphere.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>What does Hodge mean? Well, Genesis 1 states that God created a \u201cvault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it\u201d and called the vault \u201csky.\u201d The water above was the vapor canopy. The trouble is that later in the same passage, God creates the sun and the moon and the stars and sets them \u201cin the vault of the sky.\u201d If the vault is our atmosphere, with a vapor candidate separating it from outer space, then the sun and the moon and the stars are suddenly set not in outer space <em>but in our atmosphere<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>As a quick side note, Hodge writes that the \u201cwaters above\u201d referenced in this passage \u201cmay well be much further out\u2014if they still exist today.\u201d Apparently, then, there was once scads of water at the edges of the universe marking the outer limits outer space. Who knew?<\/p>\n<p>Quick side note\u2014my cursory look at these passages is making me wonder whether the vapor canopy theory <em>actually changed the translation of the Bible<\/em>. The KJV refers to a \u201cfirmament\u201d that was called \u201cthe heavens\u201d while the NIV refers to a \u201cvault\u201d that was called \u201cthe sky.\u201d Did the terminology change to fit with the vapor canopy model, which put water above the sky? At the very least, increased scientific understanding about our atmosphere and what lays beyond it shaped the way this passage is interpreted and understood.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s not just this passage that is problem, though. Hodge writes about other biblical passages that conflict with with a vapor canopy model as well:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>There is also another problem.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><cite class=\"bibleref\"><a class=\"rtBibleRef decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Ps%20148.4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-reference=\"Ps 148.4\" data-version=\"esv\" data-purpose=\"bible-reference\">Psalm 148:4<\/a>\u00a0Praise Him, you heavens of heavens, And you waters above the heavens!<\/cite><\/p>\n<p>The psalmist wrote this in a post-Flood world in the context of other post-Flood aspects. So, it appears that the windows of heaven still exist at this point (see also <cite class=\"bibleref\"><a class=\"rtBibleRef decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/2%20Kings%207.2\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-reference=\"2 Kings 7.2\" data-version=\"esv\" data-purpose=\"bible-reference\">2 Kings 7:2<\/a>, <a class=\"rtBibleRef decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/2%20Kings%207.19\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-reference=\"2 Kings 7.19\" data-version=\"esv\" data-purpose=\"bible-reference\">19<\/a><\/cite> and <cite class=\"bibleref\"><a class=\"rtBibleRef decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Mal%203.10\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-reference=\"Mal 3.10\" data-version=\"esv\" data-purpose=\"bible-reference\">Malachi 3:10<\/a><\/cite>). And this is complemented by:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><cite class=\"bibleref\"><a class=\"rtBibleRef decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/biblia.com\/bible\/esv\/Gen%208.2\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" data-reference=\"Gen 8.2\" data-version=\"esv\" data-purpose=\"bible-reference\">Genesis 8:2<\/a>\u00a0The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were also stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained.<\/cite><\/p>\n<p>This verse merely points out that the two sources were stopped and restrained, not necessarily done away with. These two verses suggest that the windows of heaven remained after the Flood. The canopy model would have to explain when and how they suddenly dissipated, and without any basis for this in Scripture.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So, do creationists sometimes change their minds based on scientific evidence? The jury is out on that one, because in this case young earth creationists changed from one unsustainable model to another, and they appear to have been motivated more by interpretations of various biblical passages than by anything else.<\/p>\n<p><b>I have a <\/b><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/lovejoyfeminism\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><b>Patreon<\/b><\/a><b>! Please support my writing!<\/b><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>So, do creationists sometimes change their minds based on scientific evidence? The jury is out on that one, because in this case young earth creationists changed from one unsustainable model to another, and they appear to have been motivated more by interpretations of various biblical passages than by anything else.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Click through to read more!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":845,"featured_media":38679,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[40],"tags":[157,722],"class_list":["post-38612","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-evangelicalism-fundamentalism","tag-creationism","tag-young-earth-creationism"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>The Evolution of Young Earth Creationist Flood Models<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"So, do creationists sometimes change their minds based on scientific evidence? 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College turned her world upside down, and she is today an atheist, a feminist, and a progressive. She blogs about leaving religion, her experience with the Christian Patriarchy and Quiverfull movements, the detrimental effects of the \\\"purity culture,\\\" the contradictions of conservative politics, and the importance of feminism.\",\"sameAs\":[\"http:\/\/patheos.com\/blogs\/lovejoyfeminism\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/lovejoyfeminism\/author\/libby\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"The Evolution of Young Earth Creationist Flood Models","description":"So, do creationists sometimes change their minds based on scientific evidence? 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