Yes, there are women who are married to messy husbands. These husbands come home from a long day at work and have no interest in doing any housework or even cleaning up after themselves. After all, they married a help meet for a reason! I know, many women don\u2019t look at it this way and their messy husbands drive them crazy. What are they to do?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Jesus, it\u2019s like Lori saw the words \u201chelp meet\u201d and instead read \u201cthe help.\u201d<\/p>\n
Lori quotes several facebook comments in which women insisted that Lori was wrong about this, and argued that men should clean up after themselves. Here\u2019s the last one Lori includes:<\/p>\n
\u201cThe Transformed Wife, if a husband refuses to love his wife by being courteous and picking up after himself, and she has lovingly addressed the situation with him, then the husband is in unrepentant sin, and a woman should seek the advice of church elders who are in authority over her husband. It\u2019s quite simple. The sin needs to be addressed and repented of, regardless of gender. Unrepentant sin is what leads to marital breakdown.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Lori, of course, disagrees with this. She disagrees with this a lot. But before we get to that, I want to note that I am uncomfortable with the idea of bringing church elders into one\u2019s marriage. Marriage counseling can be needed and do a lot of good, but that\u2019s not what we\u2019re talking about here. We\u2019re talking about one party trying to get the church elders to make the other party change some part of their behavior. If you can\u2019t get through to your partner, it seems like there\u2019s a decent chance that trying to get the elders at your church to do so would only make things worse<\/em>.<\/p>\nBesides, how would you know that the elders would side with you? When I was a girl, my siblings and I used to quarrel and then go running to mom to resolve our argument, and she would say: \u201cAre you sure you want to bring this to me? If you bring this to me, my decision is final, and you may not like it. Are you sure you don\u2019t want to just work this out between yourselves?\u201d That generally sent us on our way with a renewed interest in working things out ourselves.<\/p>\n
Lori\u2019s disagrees with the comment not because bringing elders into your marriage sounds dangerous and unpredictable but instead because she doesn\u2019t think it\u2019s a sin issue for a man to refuse to clean up after himself. (Neither do I, but I also don\u2019t believe in the concept of sin.)<\/p>\n
With that, back to Lori:<\/p>\n
I can tell you that the godly women from the chat room had entirely different views about this issue. (Oh, how I love the wisdom from godly women.)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Lori does this a lot\u2014selectively sharing comments she likes from the chat room she runs.<\/p>\n
Here\u2019s the first one:<\/p>\n
\u201cI wonder how well those elders can make the husband pick up after himself? Many of the elders may be messy too. There are women struggling with husbands who abuse, fail to provide, husbands with ongoing addictions, and those who commit marital unfaithfulness. Although messiness and inconsideration is annoying, most \u2018picking up\u2019 can be done in a few minutes. This verse comes to mind: \u2018If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men\u2019 (Romans 12:18).\u201d (Judy)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
I\u2019d call this is the \u201cit could be worse, so deal with it\u201d response.<\/p>\n
Here\u2019s another:<\/p>\n
\u201cShe\u2019s basically saying that if the husband won\u2019t do women\u2019s work by cleaning up the house after himself, he\u2019s sinning. Where exactly in the Bible is it written \u2018Thou shalt pick up your own mess?\u2019 I can\u2019t seem to find it.\u201d (Lindsay)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Where exactly its it written in the Bible that cleaning up after men is \u201cwomen\u2019s work\u201d? I can\u2019t seem to find it. \/sarcasm<\/p>\n
Here\u2019s another:<\/p>\n
\n\u201cShe needs to humble herself and submit to her husband. #jezabelspirit\u201d (Jessica)<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Okay then.<\/p>\n
\u201cWhen a husband refuses to clean up messes, even after his wife has brought it to his attention, then he has made the executive decision, as head of his household, that his wife should be the one to do that cleaning up. The wife should honor this and do it herself, without complaining.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
This is a very, very bad idea.\u00a0I am married to a wonderful, caring man who is very laid back and can be disorganized and forgetful. If I started assuming that any time he doesn\u2019t do something around the house that I\u2019ve asked him to do he\u2019s making an \u201cexecutive decision, as head of his household\u201d that it\u2019s my job, I\u2019d be flat wrong. Usually when he doesn\u2019t do something around the house that I\u2019ve asked him to do, it\u2019s because he\u2019s forgotten.<\/p>\n
When you start reading into your partner\u2019s behavior things that aren\u2019t specifically stated, you\u2019re heading off to a place you don\u2019t want to be. I know this because I used to do this all the time. I grew up in a family with a lot of indirect communication. My husband did not. Early in our marriage, I assumed that all sorts of things that meant absolutely nothing were him communicating things indirectly. They were not. Our marriage improved when I stopped doing this.<\/p>\n
Communication, communication, communication.<\/p>\n
But this particular chat room commenter isn\u2019t done:<\/p>\n
\u201cImagine the impertinence of a child being told to wash the dishes and telling his mother that she needs to wash her own dishes and when the mother does not, he tells the mother that she is in unrepentant sin. No, it\u2019s not sin for the mother to delegate that task to her child. She is in authority over him and he should obey. In the same way, it is not sin for the husband to delegate the task of cleaning up the house to his wife, regardless of who made the mess. He has that authority. It is impertinent and rebellious for the wife to insist that her husband has to do that chore. She doesn\u2019t get to decide which chores he does. She doesn\u2019t have that authority. She\u2019s not the boss. Her husband is.\u201d (Lindsay Harold)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Lori loves<\/em> to compare the relationship between husband and wife to that between parent and child (and so do the women in her chat room, apparently), and it makes me damned<\/em> uncomfortable.<\/p>\nWhen I tell my children that they do have to do what I\u2019ve just told them to do, I typically explain to them that I have more life experience than they do, and that it\u2019s my job as their parent to teach them things, and help prepare them for adulthood. We can learn two things from this: First, there is a reason parents should to be able to make decisions for their children\u2014namely, they have more knowledge than their children, who are still have a lot of things to learn. Second, parents\u2019 ability to tell their children what to do does not last forever, but instead has a natural endpoint\u2014adulthood.<\/p>\n
Neither of these circumstances is relevant to a relationship between a husband and a wife. A husband and a wife are both adults. They are equals in terms of life experience and knowledge.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s also worth noting that I only rarely pull rank with my children. Ordinarily, if they want to know why they have to do X, Y, or Z, I explain the reasons to them. No, I can\u2019t leave you at home alone while I take your sister to piano lessons, because you are still very young and it is my job as your parent to make sure you are safe, and I can\u2019t do that when I\u2019m on the other side of town.<\/p>\n
And there are many cases where I let my kids\u2019 bargain with me and change my mind! If they can think of a better way of doing something, I\u2019m all ears! They\u2019re 20 minutes from a stopping point in the computer game they\u2019re playing and can they please vacuum the living room after<\/em> they finish? Sure! And if they don\u2019t\u2014if they never show up to do the vacuuming\u2014we\u2019ll have a conversation about following through on your word and about trust, since I\u2019m their parent and as their parent it\u2019s my job to teach them to navigate life someday as adults.<\/p>\nAll of this makes comparing a husband-wife relationship to the relationship between parent and child very, very disturbing. Note, too, that when you apply the parent-child relationship to the husband-wife relationship,\u00a0the wife never gets to grow up.\u00a0<\/em>Ever.<\/p>\nLori, of course, agrees with Lindsay\u2019s comment comparing the relationship between husband and wife to that between parent and child. She agrees very much.<\/p>\n
God created wives to be their husbands\u2019 help meets, to be keepers at home, and submit to their husbands in everything. I agree with Lindsay. If he doesn\u2019t want to clean up after himself, so what, women? If he\u2019s a good provider, faithful, and loves you and your children, be thankful and cheerfully clean up after him! Even if he isn\u2019t all of those things, you may win him by choosing to care for him in this way without quarreling.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Or, she may just enable him to be an asshole.<\/p>\n
Lori finishes by adding this:<\/p>\n
If wives can\u2019t clean up after their husbands because they believe their husbands are being \u201cdisrespectful\u201d to them for being \u201cslobs,\u201d they have forgotten what Christ did for them (remember \u2013 being crucified on a cross) and what He said: \u201cThe greatest of all is the servant of all.\u201d True love bears ALL things.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
I cannot emphasize enough that women who follow this advice are enabling bad behavior in their husbands. Yes, bad behavior<\/em>\u2014because being inconsiderate of your partner and your partner\u2019s needs is<\/em> bad behavior.<\/p>\nNotice that not a single one of these commenters says anything positive about communication. Not a one of them encourages women to talk to their husbands about their needs, or to talk through the issue and try to find a solution that works for both parties.\u00a0When you approach marriage as a relationship between two partners and center communication, combined with genuine caring, it isn\u2019t hard to work out disagreements and frustrations like the ones discussed here.<\/p>\n
It may be that a man who returns from a demanding jobs needs some space to unwind before supper, and may not want to jump straight into sweeping the floor or some other chore. But it\u2019s equally the case that a man who has returned from a long day at work can put his boots and coat away where they go, and, perhaps, be responsible for overseeing kitchen cleanup after dinner to give his partner a much needed break in return. This is why both partners need to discuss their needs and listen to each other<\/em>.<\/p>\nI\u2019ve shared this story before and I likely will again, but it used to bother me to no end that my husband didn\u2019t help with the dishes. He was supposed to! We were supposed to take turns! At long last I set aside being pointlessly frustrated\u00a0and talked to him.\u00a0<\/em>He said he kept thinking he would help with the dishes but he has realized over time that he really, really hates doing dishes, and that\u2019s why he avoids them. He suggested that he take over the laundry instead. And you know what? That has worked beautifully! It\u2019s amazing what honest, open communication can achieve!<\/p>\nLori makes marriage sound extremely<\/em> unattractive. I\u2019ve actually known of cases where women raised in this culture decide they will never marry because of how terrible all the teachings they get make marriage sound, only to later learn about egalitarian marriages and realize that\u00a0it\u00a0doesn\u2019t have to be like that.\u00a0<\/i>That marriage can be something wonderful, supportive, and caring.<\/p>\nYou would never know any of that from reading Lori\u2019s posts.<\/p>\n
I have a <\/b>Patreon<\/b><\/a>! Please support my writing!\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Lori loves to compare the relationship between husband and wife to that between parent and child (and so do the women in her chat room, apparently), and it makes me damned uncomfortable.<\/p>\n
Click through to read more! <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":845,"featured_media":47876,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[40],"tags":[106],"class_list":["post-47831","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-evangelicalism-fundamentalism","tag-marriage-2"],"yoast_head":"\n
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