{"id":1824,"date":"2024-10-19T20:25:40","date_gmt":"2024-10-20T00:25:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/?p=1824"},"modified":"2024-10-19T20:25:40","modified_gmt":"2024-10-20T00:25:40","slug":"can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/","title":{"rendered":"Can Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist?\u00a0 \u00a0"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Considering Different Opinions- A Primer to Open Theism<\/span><\/b>\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n

Open theism posits that God is limited in knowledge of the future, particularly when it comes to human free will. This means that God does not have a predetermined plan for every event and can be influenced by our prayers and actions.\u00a0This begs the question then, what do we talk about when we talk about God? If you have been following my stuff for a while, the notion of Jesus\u2019s God vs. a God that we made up around Jesus appears often in my work. Examples of this are the God that you find in original sin and the God you find in Penal Substitutionary Atonement, both are ideas not believed in by the historical Jesus. <\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

For the Jews of Jesus\u2019 <\/span>time<\/span><\/a>, they were not concerned\u00a0with proving God\u2019s existence or categorically defining God\u2019s nature. The bible lays out many examples of what or who God was and many of these are contradictory. One can simply look to the book of Psalms and see the dizzying forms that God takes. Sometimes God is merciful, sometimes God is wrathful. Jesus famously calls God Abba. There was no consistency. \u00a0What is consistent is God\u2019s capacity for creativity and God\u2019s oneness. <\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Consider this thought from <\/span>my Jewish Learning:<\/span><\/a> \u201cThe\u00a0Rabbis do not try to define God, and they continue to describe God in multiple, human terms. However, some differences do emerge. In rabbinic literature, God is a bit more removed from humankind. God no longer communicates with humans through prophets and is no longer considered an active religious legislator (the rabbinic sages occupy this role). In a famous talmudic dispute, a group of rabbis rule in favor of a majority opinion that directly contradicts a heavenly voice. The passage concludes that, \u201cthe Torah is not in heaven.\u201d God, it seems, is not the final arbiter of religious law.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The problem here is that open theism is not a traditional Jewish belief. Here, we cannot go with the religion of Jesus. The Jewish people are monotheists, and God is understood to be all powerful, all knowing and all present.\u00a0 While Judaism acknowledges human free will, it also affirms God\u2019s ultimate control over the universe. This tension has been a subject of theological debate throughout Jewish history.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So, what do we do with this idea of open theism? While the notion of open theism is not a Jewish concept, I do think Jesus points us in the direction of a God who is caring and loving when Jesus proclaims God as Abba. To compound the problem, open theism does not have any ground in early Christianity either. <\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Instead, Open Theism and its newer sibling Open and Relational theology are options to see God in a different light. As a clinician who works with authoritative parenting models, I see both of these approaches as the authoritative approach to the theology of God. <\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

What is Petitionary Prayer? <\/span><\/b>\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n

A common prayer style for many Christians is petitionary prayer. Simply speaking, petitionary prayer is one asking for something such as an intercession or a healing from a divine being. In traditional monotheistic believe, God is assumed to know everything that an be known, is perfectly good, impassable and immutable and free.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span>Can Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist? <\/span><\/b>\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n

We arrive then at an impasse, petitionary prayer and an open theist view of God cannot co-exist \u2026 or can they? When we consider open theism as discussed above, God cannot know those parts of the future that are yet to be determined, such as the future free actions of human beings, either because there are no truths to be known yet or because there is no way for anyone, including God, to know them. The <\/span>Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy<\/span><\/a> posits that this view does not mean that God \u201cnot omniscient, because God still knows everything that can be known (and that is what it means to be omniscient, according to open theists).\u201d<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosoph<\/span><\/a>y also suggests something called the Middle Knowledge by Thomas Flint. \u201cHere, this holds that God knows the future in all of its detail as a result of knowing both (1) what everyone and everything would do in any possible situation and (2) which situations everyone and everything will be placed in.\u201d Here, God knows all the future in detail, but what God knows about the future is depended on what the humans choose. Here, there the idea leans heavily on free will. God may know what you will do in the future, however, because of free will, what you do is up to you. <\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Let\u2019s consider these two ideas of how the two can coexist:<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

God as a Partner<\/span><\/b>: Open theists often view God as a partner in creation, working with humanity to bring about good. Prayers can be seen as ways to express our desires and needs to God, who then responds in ways that align with God\u2019s\u00a0ultimate purposes.\u00a0I believe God\u2019s ultimate purpose is the be the presence of love in our lives. Prayer is the vehicle in which we attune ourselves to this love. <\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Influencing God\u2019s Decisions<\/span><\/b>: If God is limited in God\u2019s\u00a0knowledge of the future, then our prayers can potentially influence God\u2019s\u00a0decisions and actions. This doesn\u2019t mean that God is powerless or that our prayers are always answered in the way we desire, but it does suggest that our prayers can make a difference. I see this much like how my children an I have come to the ability to converse our needs and hear each other. Sometimes my children ask me for things or present a need and either asking, or the presence the offer cause me to lean into their asking. <\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Finally, from the context of process theology, which can parallel Open Theism, prayer is seen as a dialogue where both parties\u2014human and Divine\u2014are influenced. Your prayers matter deeply, they can be seen as contributions to a Divine-human collaboration, each petition shaping possibilities and inspiring new pathways for both personal and collective well-being. As I noted on the section on open theism, Jesus calls God Abba, and I see open theism as the authoritative, collaborative relationship with God. Just as my kids come to me for advice and have at times begged me for help, I like a loving father, embraced them physically and emotionally and gently guided them through the challenges they were facing. As I offered in my post on the <\/span>Holy Spirit<\/span><\/a>, it is the Holy Spirit of the Trinity that is God\u2019s spiritual energy that moves and breaths through us to comfort us through the hard times. <\/span><\/p>\n

To Close<\/span><\/b>\u00a0<\/span><\/h3>\n

To close, as mindful and compassionate seekers, we ought to consider prayer both as communication and co \u2013creation. When we pray, such as petitionary prayers, we are not just expressing a need or conveying gratitude, we are engaging in a co-created dialogue with the divine. I hold that the belief in God is a subjective experience of a transrational being. It makes no sense to anyone but the believer(s). Mystery is a spiritual practice that when embraced, helps us to learn to be comfortable with not knowing. It is the embracing of the isness of a situation and not clinging to an outcome. In our discussion, it is the embracing the nothingness and everythingness of God. It is allowing God\u2019s presence to be a mystery that is at the same time here and not here. God is and always will be, how that is defined has be maintained with the believer. No ologie can fully grasp the presence of God. It is kinda what God told us in the first place at the burning bush. <\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Considering Different Opinions- A Primer to Open Theism\u00a0 Open theism posits that God is limited in knowledge of the future, particularly when it comes to human free will. This means that God does not have a predetermined plan for every event and can be influenced by our prayers and actions.\u00a0This begs the question then, what […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5414,"featured_media":1827,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[597,600],"class_list":["post-1824","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-open-theism","tag-petitionary-prayer"],"yoast_head":"\nCan Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist?\u00a0 \u00a0<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"This week I look at the comparability of petitionary prayer with open theism. Are they compatible and can they coexist?\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Can Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist?\u00a0 \u00a0\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"This week I look at the comparability of petitionary prayer with open theism. Are they compatible and can they coexist?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Love Opens Doors\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2024-10-20T00:25:40+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/2129\/2024\/10\/oildereksatnight.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"640\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"480\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Rob Giannamore\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@robgiannamore\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Rob Giannamore\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"6 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/\",\"name\":\"Can Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist?\u00a0 \u00a0\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2024-10-20T00:25:40+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2024-10-20T00:25:40+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#\/schema\/person\/ce5640f99ed86b9ae9cbb1935f9b3e5d\"},\"description\":\"This week I look at the comparability of petitionary prayer with open theism. Are they compatible and can they coexist?\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Can Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist?\u00a0 \u00a0\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/\",\"name\":\"Love Opens Doors\",\"description\":\"A middle age dad lured away from the monastery with tacos looks at contemplatively living with everyday intention.\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#\/schema\/person\/ce5640f99ed86b9ae9cbb1935f9b3e5d\",\"name\":\"Rob Giannamore\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/2f5b9cea80e7bde92fdd313116936a52?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/2f5b9cea80e7bde92fdd313116936a52?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Rob Giannamore\"},\"description\":\"Rob Giannamore is a modern day contemplative. His formal education includes a Bachelors of Arts in Social Work, a Masers of Divinity and a Masters in Mental Health Counseling. He is a member of the Order of Saint Benedict as an Oblate. Rob is a father of four girls and has been married 25 years to his wonderful bride. He is a martial artist, writer, college professor, endurance athlete and adventurer.\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/rob-giannamore-60141021\/\",\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/@robgiannamore\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/author\/rgiannamore\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Can Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist?\u00a0 \u00a0","description":"This week I look at the comparability of petitionary prayer with open theism. Are they compatible and can they coexist?","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Can Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist?\u00a0 \u00a0","og_description":"This week I look at the comparability of petitionary prayer with open theism. Are they compatible and can they coexist?","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/","og_site_name":"Love Opens Doors","article_published_time":"2024-10-20T00:25:40+00:00","og_image":[{"width":640,"height":480,"url":"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/2129\/2024\/10\/oildereksatnight.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Rob Giannamore","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@robgiannamore","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Rob Giannamore","Est. reading time":"6 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/","name":"Can Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist?\u00a0 \u00a0","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#website"},"datePublished":"2024-10-20T00:25:40+00:00","dateModified":"2024-10-20T00:25:40+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#\/schema\/person\/ce5640f99ed86b9ae9cbb1935f9b3e5d"},"description":"This week I look at the comparability of petitionary prayer with open theism. Are they compatible and can they coexist?","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/2024\/10\/can-open-theism-and-petitionary-prayer-coexist\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Can Open Theism and Petitionary Prayer Coexist?\u00a0 \u00a0"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/","name":"Love Opens Doors","description":"A middle age dad lured away from the monastery with tacos looks at contemplatively living with everyday intention.","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#\/schema\/person\/ce5640f99ed86b9ae9cbb1935f9b3e5d","name":"Rob Giannamore","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/2f5b9cea80e7bde92fdd313116936a52?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/2f5b9cea80e7bde92fdd313116936a52?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","caption":"Rob Giannamore"},"description":"Rob Giannamore is a modern day contemplative. His formal education includes a Bachelors of Arts in Social Work, a Masers of Divinity and a Masters in Mental Health Counseling. He is a member of the Order of Saint Benedict as an Oblate. Rob is a father of four girls and has been married 25 years to his wonderful bride. He is a martial artist, writer, college professor, endurance athlete and adventurer.","sameAs":["https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/rob-giannamore-60141021\/","https:\/\/twitter.com\/@robgiannamore"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/author\/rgiannamore\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1824","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5414"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1824"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1824\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/1827"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1824"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1824"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/loveopensdoors\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1824"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}