{"id":46763,"date":"2013-09-05T00:33:18","date_gmt":"2013-09-05T07:33:18","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/?p=46763"},"modified":"2014-12-29T21:16:47","modified_gmt":"2014-12-30T04:16:47","slug":"another-reader-writes-to-describe-his-experience","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2013\/09\/another-reader-writes-to-describe-his-experience.html","title":{"rendered":"Another Reader Writes to Describe His Experience&#8230;"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>as a faithful Catholic wrestling with SSA:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>At the end of your post <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2013\/08\/an-interesting-letter-from-a-gay-reader.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">\u201can-interesting-letter-from-a-gay-reader\u201d<\/a> you said you \u201cwould be particularly interested in hearing from gay readers who are attempting to live as a Catholic disciple of Jesus\u201d so I thought I would share my perspective.<\/p>\n<p>It is difficult for me to speak about because I fear the reactions from the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2013\/08\/another-gay-person-i-regard-as-a-fine-catholic.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">\u201cconservative Catholic inquisitors\u201d, \u201cthe unchaste\u201d<\/a>, and others who promote homosexuality. I believe, though, that if more and more people like me, who experience homosexual attractions start speaking up we can spread more hope. \u00a0I\u2019ll start with a brief account of my story so you know where I\u2019m coming from.<\/p>\n<p>I have experienced homosexual attractions since I remember having sexual feelings. Even before then I remember a longing that though, pre-sexual, was probably the same thing. It felt natural, like I was just made \u2018this way\u2019 and was always \u2018this way\u2019. \u00a0When I was 23, I reverted to the Church. \u00a0I began to love Her teachings and began learning everything I could about what She taught and how to live it. I was fully committed to Jesus through Holy Mother Church. But there was this problem of the homosexual desires that felt \u201cnatural\u201d to me. \u00a0Why would God make me \u2018this way\u2019 if the behavior is wrong? I found the <a href=\"http:\/\/couragerc.org\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Courage Apostolate<\/a> in my city and this pretty much saved my life. \u00a0I had loved Holy Mother Church but had been torn apart by not living Her teachings and the apparent contradiction that God would make me \u2018this way\u2019. \u00a0I found other men and woman at Courage who wanted to live chaste lives and be disciples of Christ who also experienced homosexual attractions.<\/p>\n<p>After a few years of Courage meetings, I felt like there was something still not right. \u00a0I heard Christopher West say, \u201cChrist did not come to give us coping mechanisms for our sins, but to redeem us.\u201d \u00a0Well, if that is true, and the Church teaches that homosexual attractions are disorders, and if the Church\u2019s meaning of disordered desires is the same as a disordered desire to eat too much, gossip, or any other manifestation of concupiscence, then maybe I wasn\u2019t born\/made \u2018this way\u2019. \u00a0After all, \u201cmale and female He created them\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>I did some research and found <a href=\"http:\/\/narth.com\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">NARTH<\/a>. Then I found other like-minded men who believed that homosexual attractions can be reduced and in some cases eliminated. \u00a0It has been 7 years since I started reparative therapy and other things to reduce and\/or eliminate my homosexual attractions. \u00a0It has worked; better than I would have ever hoped for. It has literally saved my life.<\/p>\n<p>Reparative therapy is not really about change, but about becoming what I already am. A man. As I approach human perfection, all manifestations of concupiscence will diminish, including my homosexual attractions. \u00a0I found that holding on to a \u2018gay\u2019, \u2018homosexual\u2019, \u2018ssa\u2019, or \u2018gay Catholic and okay with it\u2019 identity was incongruent with living a spiritual life. \u00a0Sure, I may still have homosexual attractions and my keep having them until the last second of Purgatory, but that doesn\u2019t mean that I am \u2018gay\u2019. \u00a0I am a man, not a gay man, not an ssa man, not a straight man for that matter; I\u2019m a man. Since baptism leaves an indelible mark on my soul then I am a Catholic man.<\/p>\n<p>My homosexual attractions no longer plague me and are drastically reduced. \u00a0In fact, I only have them when I\u2019m tempted to lust or am in fact lusting. \u00a0This is much, much different than before because now it feels like lust and before it felt natural. \u00a0Now when I feel homosexual attractions they feel \u2018wrong\u2019. \u00a0Not the moral kind of wrong but more like a hunger craving for junk food. Yeah, I could eat the junk food and feel full but not satisfied or nourished; that kind of wrong. I experience chaste heterosexual attractions and, though I never expected it, I now long to spend my life with a women and even doing what man and woman do to become mother and father together. \u00a0Sure, if I lust, it is for men. Should I make it a goal to lust after women? No. \u00a0I already experience chaste heterosexual desire for women (though even 3 years ago I thought it was impossible) so why don\u2019t I just keep taking the lust to the foot of the cross and work on that? That is what I\u2019m doing, and thanks be to God, it is working.<\/p>\n<p>That is my brief story. These are my positions:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Homosexual attractions are mutable; they can be changed.<\/li>\n<li>Homosexual attractions are just another manifestation of concupiscence and so at some point on the path to Christian perfection, even if that is in purgatory, they will disappear.<\/li>\n<li>It is not necessary to seek to change homosexual attractions to live a rich, spiritual life. Seeking chastity, (avoiding sin and the near occasion of sin) is all that is required.<\/li>\n<li>Some may have other virtues they want\/need to grow in and, since they are living a chaste life, don\u2019t have a need to make changing homosexual attractions a priority.<\/li>\n<li>No reparative therapy can be shame based. Anyone who will be successful must first believe or come to believe that they are good and valuable just as they are, unchanged, before realizing any success in any reparative therapy.<\/li>\n<li>\u201dGay\u201d and \u201dhomosexual\u201d are not nouns or adjectives to describe a person.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>I\u2019m writing this because I\u2019ve read two articles on your blog lately from individuals who experience homosexual attractions and are living a sincere Christian life like I am and I have found that I don\u2019t agree with them on some points. I can\u2019t argue, as you said, against their experience and I don\u2019t want to.<\/p>\n<p>But this is my experience. Should I just shut up about it because it doesn\u2019t agree with someone else\u2019s experience?<\/p>\n<p>I want to answer some of the points brought up by the man who wrote the email in the post I referenced above.<\/p>\n<p>1. \u201cDeemphasize the reliance on psychological models of same-sex attraction.\u201d \u00a0I agree with the reader that \u201ctoo many\u2026conflate the theological and psychological meanings of the term \u2018disorder'\u201d and I agree that it causes many problems. \u00a0I don\u2019t know that I agree to de-emphazie the psychological modesl though. Those models have saved my life. I\u2019m guessing that we really aren\u2019t talking about the same thing since we seem to share different experiences. \u00a0I know of many \u201coutrageous therapeutic procedures\u201d. I don\u2019t recommend those. Some of them treat the homosexual attractions as the problem when they are really only a symptom. Other \u201ctherapies\u201d seem to be shame based and shame never results in lasting change. \u00a0The most important work for anyone with homosexual attractions, if they aren\u2019t there already, is to come to believe that they are good and valuable just as they are, unchanged. \u00a0And we can\u2019t do that if we say, \u201cGod didn\u2019t make you that way, you must change.\u201d \u00a0I say, \u201cyou are good and valuable unchanged and I love you and accept you just as you are. I believe that you will find the path to ultimate fulfillment and happiness if you seek change in they way I have. Would you like to try? I accept you either way.\u201d \u00a0I have experienced true freedom with reparative therapies and it would be a crime for me to not tell others and offer it to them.<\/p>\n<p>2. \u201cAllow for the use of the terms \u201cgay\u201d and \u201chomosexual\u201d used as a noun.\u201d \u00a0No, I won\u2019t do that. \u00a0From my perspective of the common culture, \u201cgay\u201d and \u201chomosexual\u201d means someone who, BY NATURE, experiences homosexual attractions. Those words connote a \u201cgay\u201d or \u201chomosexual\u201d <span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\">identity<\/span>. \u00a0I believe that homosexual attractions are a manifestation of concupiscence and therefore, not part of any identity. \u00a0If I call anyone, those who practice and promote homosexual behavior or those who experience homosexuality and practice chastity, a gay or a homosexual than I am confirming them in a <a href=\"http:\/\/www.cuf.org\/2011\/01\/i-am-not-gay-i-am-david\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">FALSE identity <\/a>and that is a violence against their person.<\/p>\n<p>3. \u201cCanonize a gay saint.\u201d I hear you. I would love if if that happened with the emphasis that he or she is a saint just like any other saint. This difference is difficult to demonstrate because so many people extol saints of different races and social class, but none of us put race or social background on the same tier as alcoholism or serial un-chastity. The saint canonized and know for his homosexual attractions will still be known for leading a life of heroic virtue. The life of heroic virtue is hard and meritorious for anyone no matter the crosses they endure.<\/p>\n<p>4. \u201cBe able to offer a tangible alternative to the life offered by homosexual activists.\u201d I\u2019d like to hear more about your reader\u2019s experience with this. This has not been my experience. \u00a0I have found a life that offers male intimacy, male companionship, and brotherhood that does not involve the genitals. \u00a0I have the possibility of a stable family with a wife. \u00a0So I was offered that alternative to the gay lifestyle and I have taken it.<\/p>\n<p>5. \u201cNever use the Theology of the Body as an apologetical tool for same-sex attractions unless you are also prepared to answer some of the grim, unsavory implications that flow from it.\u201d I would like to hear more of your reader\u2019s take on this. \u00a0I have found TOB to be very helpful to me and it offered me hope many years ago that has proved very fruitful. \u00a0Maybe I\u2019m illogical, but I did not find TOB to only offer me \u201ca beautiful vision of sexuality that [I am] too depraved to participate meaningfully in.\u201d \u00a0I participate in it now by chastity and I hope to participate in it more through marriage in the future. \u00a0Maybe the difference is that I believe that homosexual attracts can (can, not must) be changed. I\u2019m guessing that your reader doesn\u2019t and that is why we have different \u201clogical conclusions.\u201d Heterosexual desire is not necessary for full inclusion into the spiritual life and neither is marriage. \u00a0It is possible though; it is what I have found God is leading me to.<\/p>\n<p>6. Actively promote Courage as a social outlet.\u201d I agree with the reader on this.<\/p>\n<p>Mark, thank you for giving space on your blog for those posts and if you chose, this that I\u2019m writing now. \u00a0I\u2019ve felt like I need to speak about my experience for many years but I\u2019m afraid to do it. \u00a0This is me getting my feet wet and may lead to more. Please do not call me gay, a gay reader, or a gay Catholic. A Catholic with homosexual attractions works just fine. A Catholic man is even better.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I\u2019m grateful for the people who have written.\u00a0 Part of what strikes me is the\u00a0sheer multiplicity and variety of experiences.\u00a0 I think it \u2018s good to see.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>as a faithful Catholic wrestling with SSA: At the end of your post \u201can-interesting-letter-from-a-gay-reader\u201d you said you \u201cwould be particularly interested in hearing from gay readers who are attempting to live as a Catholic disciple of Jesus\u201d so I thought I would share my perspective. It is difficult for me to speak about because I [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":92,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[8],"class_list":["post-46763","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-mailbag"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Another Reader Writes to Describe His Experience...<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"as a faithful Catholic wrestling with SSA: At the end of your post &quot;an-interesting-letter-from-a-gay-reader&quot; you said you &quot;would be particularly\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" 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