{"id":6019,"date":"2009-08-12T08:24:00","date_gmt":"2009-08-12T08:24:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2009\/08\/for-my-money-one-of-the-weakest-arguments-against-the-immaculate-conception\/"},"modified":"2015-01-01T10:31:26","modified_gmt":"2015-01-01T17:31:26","slug":"for-my-money-one-of-the-weakest-arguments-against-the-immaculate-conception","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2009\/08\/for-my-money-one-of-the-weakest-arguments-against-the-immaculate-conception.html","title":{"rendered":"For My Money, One of the Weakest Arguments Against the Immaculate Conception"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>A reader writes:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I have always understood that the woman of Revelation to be the Blessed Mother.  I was discussing the Immaculate Conception with a Baptist co-worker, specifically how she had no pain during child birth; he replied that if that was the case that she couldn\u2019t be the woman of Revelation as \u201cshe cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.\u201d  I must admit that this was a good point.<\/p>\n<p>Would you be able to offer some insights?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>From <em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.mark-shea.com\/books.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Mary, Mother of the Son<\/a>, Volume 2: First Guardian of the Faith<\/em>.  This is from the chapter on the Immaculate Conception:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Beyond that, we are left with only increasingly weak attempts to argue for Mary\u2019s sinfulness from increasing frail evidence.  One argument, oddly enough, accepts that Mary is the woman of Revelation 12 after all.   However, since Revelation says the woman was \u201cwith child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery\u201d (Rev. 12:2) then (the claim goes) she must be sinful since this is the punishment prescribed for Eve after the fall:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>To the woman he said,<br>\u201cI will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;<br>in pain you shall bring forth children (Gen. 3:16).<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Even to me, who had deeply assumed there was something in Scripture contradicting the Immaculate Conception, this was an exceedingly weak claim.  By the logic of this argument, it would also be possible to indict Jesus as a sinner since he suffered, toiled, sweated, and died, just like Adam (cf. Gen. 3:17-19).<\/p>\n<p>But more fundamentally, there\u2019s a peculiar tone-deafness to the argument.  It\u2019s like saying, \u201cOkay! I grant that Mary is the Cosmic Queen of the Universe, crowned with twelve stars, clothed with the majesty of the sun, and treading the moon under her feet with the awesome glory that God has bestowed upon her! But what\u2019s this?  Is that a thread I spy hanging loose on her garments that outshine the sun?\u201d  It\u2019s a very silly argument, particularly since the language used by Revelation is so close to the imagery of the \u201cbirth pangs of the kingdom\u201d (Matt. 24:8) used by her Son and can easily be taken to refer to the \u201csword\u201d that pierced her soul at the Passion, not to physical labor pains.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>You can <a href=\"http:\/\/www.mark-shea.com\/books.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">get the whole trilogy here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div class=\"blogger-post-footer\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A reader writes: I have always understood that the woman of Revelation to be the Blessed Mother. I was discussing the Immaculate Conception with a Baptist co-worker, specifically how she had no pain during child birth; he replied that if that was the case that she couldn\u2019t be the woman of Revelation as \u201cshe cried [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":92,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6019","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>For My Money, One of the Weakest Arguments Against the Immaculate Conception<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"A reader writes:I have always understood that the woman of Revelation to be the Blessed Mother. 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