{"id":94539,"date":"2015-11-04T00:09:11","date_gmt":"2015-11-04T07:09:11","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/?p=94539"},"modified":"2015-10-02T20:22:21","modified_gmt":"2015-10-03T03:22:21","slug":"a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html","title":{"rendered":"A Protestant Reader is Trying to Understand Papal Infallibility"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

He writes:<\/p>\n

I am\u00a0a Reformed Presbyterian trending towards the Catholic Church, and I am about half way through your book By What Authority<\/em><\/a>. I am enjoying very much.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Howdy! \u00a0And thank you!<\/p>\n

I have a question for you. I have been debating a fellow Reformed friend about Infallible Tradition. He objects to the claim of infallibility outright on the grounds that there have been former popes condemned as heretics. I think\u00a0Pope Honorius I is the example that he sights most frequently. First of all is that accurate?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I\u2019m not an expert on the history of the papacy, but here\u2019s what I know about Honorius.\u00a0 Basically, he expressed opinion\u2013in a private letter\u2013about an obscure heresy called monothelitism and came down on the wrong side of what the Church would eventually decide was orthodox.\u00a0 So he was wrong, but that has nothing to do with infallibility since he was not formally defining doctrine but just noodling a problem and giving his educated thoughts on it in private.<\/p>\n

Infallibility is actually a very narrow protection.\u00a0 It means that when a pope formally defines a doctrine for the Church, he will be protected by the Spirit from defining error as truth.\u00a0 The pope can therefore be wrong or imprudent about all kinds of stuff and infallibility has nothing to do with it. (That doesn\u2019t, by the way, means \u201cBlow off the pope just so long as he\u2019s not speaking ex cathedra.<\/em>\u00a0 My garage mechanic is not infallible, but I still do well to pay close attention to his opinion on my car as somebody with extreme competence in his field.\u00a0 The same should be said of the pope.)<\/p>\n

\u00a0Have there been popes that have been officially condemned as heretics?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Liberius is the first pope not canonized, because he cracked under duress and signed some semi-Arian document.\u00a0 That\u2019s hardly \u201cheresy\u201d (just weakness) and it was, again, not an exercise of the Magisterium.\u00a0 Sixtus VI was fixing to promulgate a bad translation of Scripture when the Holy Spirit solved the problem by Sixtus\u2019 sudden death.\u00a0 Again, no violation of infallibility.\u00a0 Other popes were rotters, but again they did not change the Church\u2019s teaching.\u00a0 Honorius is about the closest you get.\u00a0 Which, given 2000 years of history is rather striking in what it does *not<\/strong>* show.\u00a0 Newman points out (somewhere) that it\u2019s amazingly slim pickings for 2000 years of history to have Liberius say something under duress, Honorius make a bad call in a private letter, Sixtus screw up (again in private)\u2026 and that\u2019s it.\u00a0 Beyond that you have either sinners who did not change doctrine or, even more remarkable, sinners who murder their way into the papacy with the promise to cooperate with royal heretics and who then suddenly and inexplicably refuse to play ball with the court once they have been consecrated as pope and remain orthodox.<\/p>\n

\u00a0If so, what kind of implications does this have on the Catholic Church\u2019s claims to teaching\u00a0infallibility? He is not objecting to bad behavior by former popes, but rather that they taught something that was officially\u00a0heretical.<\/p>\n

It hasn\u2019t happened.\u00a0 That\u2019s the point of the charism of infallibility.\u00a0 The Church is prevented by the Spirit from defining error as truth and truth as error.\u00a0 Here\u2019s a little piece I wrote on that.<\/a><\/p>\n

Do you have any good resources, from a Catholic perspective, that answers questions like this about the papacy in a substantial way?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Catholic Encyclopedia entry on Infallibility<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Jesus, Peter, and the Keys<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n

Upon This Rock<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n

Hope that helps!<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

He writes: I am\u00a0a Reformed Presbyterian trending towards the Catholic Church, and I am about half way through your book By What Authority. I am enjoying very much. Howdy! \u00a0And thank you! I have a question for you. I have been debating a fellow Reformed friend about Infallible Tradition. He objects to the claim of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":92,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[215,8],"class_list":["post-94539","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-apologetic-stuff","tag-mailbag"],"yoast_head":"\nA Protestant Reader is Trying to Understand Papal Infallibility<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"He writes: I am\u00a0a Reformed Presbyterian trending towards the Catholic Church, and I am about half way through your book By What Authority. I am enjoying\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"A Protestant Reader is Trying to Understand Papal Infallibility\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"He writes: I am\u00a0a Reformed Presbyterian trending towards the Catholic Church, and I am about half way through your book By What Authority. I am enjoying\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Catholic and Enjoying It!\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2015-11-04T07:09:11+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2015-10-03T03:22:21+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Mark Shea\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Mark Shea\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html\",\"name\":\"A Protestant Reader is Trying to Understand Papal Infallibility\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2015-11-04T07:09:11+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2015-10-03T03:22:21+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#\/schema\/person\/c1a9ac1e557d3c626974fd6692818ad5\"},\"description\":\"He writes: I am\u00a0a Reformed Presbyterian trending towards the Catholic Church, and I am about half way through your book By What Authority. I am enjoying\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"A Protestant Reader is Trying to Understand Papal Infallibility\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/\",\"name\":\"Catholic and Enjoying It!\",\"description\":\"Mark Shea's Blog: So That No Thought of Mine, No Matter How Stupid, Should Ever Go Unpublished Again!\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#\/schema\/person\/c1a9ac1e557d3c626974fd6692818ad5\",\"name\":\"Mark Shea\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f287911f45adc932ad24ddbae3597ed5?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f287911f45adc932ad24ddbae3597ed5?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Mark Shea\"},\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/author\/markshea\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"A Protestant Reader is Trying to Understand Papal Infallibility","description":"He writes: I am\u00a0a Reformed Presbyterian trending towards the Catholic Church, and I am about half way through your book By What Authority. I am enjoying","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"A Protestant Reader is Trying to Understand Papal Infallibility","og_description":"He writes: I am\u00a0a Reformed Presbyterian trending towards the Catholic Church, and I am about half way through your book By What Authority. I am enjoying","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html","og_site_name":"Catholic and Enjoying It!","article_published_time":"2015-11-04T07:09:11+00:00","article_modified_time":"2015-10-03T03:22:21+00:00","author":"Mark Shea","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Mark Shea","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html","name":"A Protestant Reader is Trying to Understand Papal Infallibility","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#website"},"datePublished":"2015-11-04T07:09:11+00:00","dateModified":"2015-10-03T03:22:21+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#\/schema\/person\/c1a9ac1e557d3c626974fd6692818ad5"},"description":"He writes: I am\u00a0a Reformed Presbyterian trending towards the Catholic Church, and I am about half way through your book By What Authority. I am enjoying","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2015\/11\/a-protestant-reader-is-trying-to-understand-papal-infallibility.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"A Protestant Reader is Trying to Understand Papal Infallibility"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/","name":"Catholic and Enjoying It!","description":"Mark Shea's Blog: So That No Thought of Mine, No Matter How Stupid, Should Ever Go Unpublished Again!","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#\/schema\/person\/c1a9ac1e557d3c626974fd6692818ad5","name":"Mark Shea","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f287911f45adc932ad24ddbae3597ed5?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f287911f45adc932ad24ddbae3597ed5?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Mark Shea"},"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/author\/markshea"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/94539","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/92"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=94539"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/94539\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=94539"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=94539"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=94539"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}