{"id":405,"date":"2009-09-17T10:31:00","date_gmt":"2009-09-17T10:31:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/09\/comments-on-she-says-this-is-my-problem-not-hers\/"},"modified":"2009-09-17T10:31:00","modified_gmt":"2009-09-17T10:31:00","slug":"comments-on-she-says-this-is-my-problem-not-hers","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/09\/comments-on-she-says-this-is-my-problem-not-hers.html","title":{"rendered":"Comments on “She says this is my problem, not hers…”"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

I received a lot of comments on the following post: She says this is my problem, not hers\u2026.<\/a><\/span><\/div>\n
And I\u2019d like to address them all at once if possible. <\/span><\/div>\n
<\/div>\n

That \u201caffair with yourself\u201d suggestion scares the living daylights out of me. It sounds so wrong, somehow. It seems like anyone who gave themselves permission to be selfish for 6 months to a year would be giving in to the natural man and would enjoy it and choose that path. Eternal marriage isn\u2019t easy. But it\u2019s a commandment and something that can make us grow in ways that nothing else can. I think turning to yourself that much is like giving up on your side of the triangle. Only God is holding it together, but He has given us agency, and if two have turned away from each other, it won\u2019t take long for it to break. Instead, I would say he should turn further to God and really work on the relationship there. That will strengthen the triangle.<\/p>\n


<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
I am not a mental health professional, but despite my lack of expertise I want to express my opinion that I do not necessarily agree with the suggestion that a priesthood leader explain to the wife the proper functioning of sex within marriage (unless the wife has a true doctrinal question about this). Whether the woman\u2019s withdrawal is a result of stresses in the marriage, her abusive father, disappointment with her husband, or some other source, I don\u2019t think that it would be healthy to have a male ecclesiastical leader, usually untrained as a family<\/span> therapist, telling her that she should be giving herself physically to her husband.
Further, it seems that much of the advice seems to overlook the possibility that the husband could effect some positive changes in the marriage even if his wife is not ready to confront issues together. Perhaps the husband has many blind spots that have contributed more than he realizes to his wife\u2019s withdrawal. A good individual therapist could help him confront these issues. I don\u2019t think that considering ultimatums is necessarily the next step.
Based on my own experiences, I would be inclined to view the wife\u2019s insistence<\/span> that the problem is her husband\u2019s alone as a signal that the wife has been very hurt by her husband but does not feel safe talking about it.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
I disagree with both previous commenters<\/span> here. I am not an expert per se<\/span>, but having lived in a similar relationship for well over 10 years, I see the wisdom and value in the counsel that was given.
First, in my opinion, the suggestion to have \u201can affair with yourself\u201d did not exclude the possibility that part of this affair would in fact be a strengthening of the husband\u2019s relationship with God. I understood the suggestion to be merely to take a step back from the marriage and to find other interests to create fulfillment. It is unfortunate that our marriages can become so imbalanced at times, and the desire to restore some equilibrium easily becomes all consuming: the more one spouse tries, the more the other resists. The spouse that is dissatisfied with the relationship becomes so emotionally spent that it is wise for this spouse to find other areas of fulfillment, including strengthening the relationship with God.
Second, although a priesthood leader may not be the ideal person, in these cases where no progress is being made after multiple attempts over a period of time, the opinion of a neutral third party can be invaluable. Where the wife has refused counseling<\/span>, the options for a neutral third party become somewhat limited.
Of course, I do not know either person<\/span> in this relationship, so I could be completely off . . . . <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
I think the variety of comments here reflects a key truth \u2014 ultimately, the only one who can guide this person is God. There is no one right answer for these kinds of challenges. relationships are so complex. I would urge the person writing in to pray and seek for answers about next steps.
Do I step back?
Do I let go of expectations and just support my wife in what she is obviously struggling with?
Do I confront her?
Do I insist that she do something or else?
Do I let her be and do and just do my thing for a while?
Do I consider leaving?
Do I stay and just be grateful for the good that is there?
Do I just wait?
The possibilities are nearly boundless.
I think also that what is unacceptable in the ideal (no sex) may really need to be addressed from where this woman is. Maybe she is selfish and past feeling and it\u2019s time to be done. or maybe she is in deep pain and her husband\u2019s responses could help her and their marriage heal. I can\u2019t help but wonder if it\u2019s the latter. It must be so hard to have no intimacy, and to have her shut down, but have you prayed and prayed and prayed some more for insight on how to respond? If maybe the approach was less about your needs and hopes but more about trying to create a space where she might be able to feel more comfortable sharing over time??
The only way to know really is from God, imo<\/span>.
I do agree, though, that hopelessness is not a good option, and while I\u2019m<\/span> not sure I would agree with going to a full emotional separation test yet (it sounds like there is still a lot so fresh, so new. seems that there could be lots there lurking beneath her surface that some compassion and time might open up?
I do think that it\u2019s good to consider ways to be happy that are not tied to his wife\u2019s decisions. Ultimately, whether he\/she stays or leaves or whatever is not for anyone to decide. But regardless, he can make progress toward not being so dependent on what she chooses, whether the marriage continues or not. I can\u2019t help but wonder if that dependence is part of what may be adding to the problem\u2026more pressure for her, less feeling of safety and space and respect for her agency\u2026even if you don\u2019t agree with or like her choices. Again, maybe there is no hope for the marriage. But maybe there are things that God can help you know and see to do that could help open things up toward a process of healing.
I have seen this happen in situations that seemed hopeless. the spirit can do amazing things toward that end. If nothing else, he can heal your heart. Maybe if you have less pain and resentment so you can see more clearly what is really the right thing to do. If you are acting out of pain or anger, you will likely not make a good decision. your heart needs to be in a good place for the spirit to guide. If you are still angry, maybe start there?
Maybe. or maybe not. Again, only God can really help you figure it out.
It can be so hard, but that process<\/span> in and of itself is a key part of why we are here, imo<\/span>. Go to Him. like never before. <\/span><\/span><\/span>
<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
I realize that using the term \u201caffair with yourself\u201d could be deemed controversial and maybe I could have chosen better terminology. However, what scares the living daylights out of me is that this couple has not had sex for 9 years, are living in separate quarters, and are more than likely planning to leave each other as soon as the children are out of the house. In addition, I\u2019m sure the tension, sadness and hopelessness in the home is having all kinds of effects on the children themselves as this example of non-existent intimacy is showcased. Although still officially married, there is little left of an emotional or spiritual relationship between these two individuals \u2013 not falling in lines with the definition of true marriage after all. Couples that find themselves in such negative and long-lasting patterns can in essence be entrenched and stuck \u2013 there are people who live an entire marriage like this. It is commendable that they stay together (usually out of religious reasons, financial reasons or for the sake of the children) but they stay miserable in the process. And there is no reason we should live out our lives miserably. When couples are stuck then they are continually relating in a way that exacerbates the problems \u2013 many times without even realizing it or meaning to (i.e. you yell to get someone\u2019s attention and when they don\u2019t hear you, you yell louder \u2013 but you\u2019re still yelling instead of doing something completely different like flagging them down). So my suggestion to take a step back is in essence, trying something drastically different and new. This man is in the role of pursuer and his wife is the rejecter. It\u2019s not working. Trying to get him to pursue her in different ways, will probably not work either at this point. If he can take a genuine step back from this role \u2013 there may be a new possibility. The key to doing this correctly is to not allow anger, bitterness and selfishness to be the motivating reasons \u2013 and that\u2019s what makes this a difficult exercise. It\u2019s hard for me to describe what I want him to be able to do in writing \u2013 this process usually takes a lot of coaching on the therapist\u2019s part. But the goal is to back up from the negativity \u2013 sever the emotional ties (mostly negative at this point) \u2013 and hopefully from there start recreating the relationship. Hopefully, as an added plus, people can learn how to meet some of their own needs. Is there a risk that the marriage will not survive this process? Yes. But the risk already exists and greatly so. It\u2019s like doing experimental medicine on people who have a terminal illness. Sometimes it works!<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
As far as talking with our bishops regarding sexual issues \u2013 it is sometimes the only place people feel comfortable to go. I get the feeling that this wife is using incorrect doctrinal interpretations to justify her position. The hardest part of doing this blog is that I only get one side of the story. So I\u2019m doing the best I can with only half the information I usually need to be most successful. However, it is completely appropriate to discuss things of a sexual nature with our bishops and it is also completely appropriate for them to give guidance in this area of our lives. Will they be perfect at it? No. Are they professionally trained in these subjects? No. But this is where hopefully we can trust in the spiritual guidance they receive and in revelation. If someone has received sexual counsel from a bishop that they are uncomfortable with or has not been helpful, then I would encourage getting other opinions and discussing it. Further trauma is never the goal or intent in these situations. I would encourage people to get professional advice as well \u2013 but many in our Mormon culture<\/a> are just not willing to do this \u2013 as in this case. And many minimize professional advice even when they get it because they don\u2019t see it as \u201cin accord\u201d with gospel teachings even though this is many times not accurate. <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
I agree that the wife may not feel safe discussing the marital issues at hand \u2013 and there are more than likely legitimate reasons as to why she is struggling. However, \u201cchecking out\u201d is not a long-term viable option. Not if a marriage is to succeed. It is just not fair to take the stance, \u201cI\u2019m not happy with you, I don\u2019t want to have sex with you, I\u2019m not going to tell you why I\u2019m not happy, and I refuse to get help telling you why.\u201d Regardless if it is a wife or a husband who is doing this, it just isn\u2019t an appropriate way to act. <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
The word \u201cultimatum\u201d is also controversial and I should have used instead \u201csetting appropriate boundaries and expectations in an honest and open fashion.\u201d Stating \u201cI cannot continue in our marriage if we can\u2019t resolve certain issues\u201d is an appropriate statement. Stating \u201cI will leave you if you don\u2019t change!\u201d is not. <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
As far as the staying close to God throughout this process, I completely agree that this is pivotal and very much a part of our personal journeys here on earth. Prayer, fasting, scripture study, meditation, journal writing, etc. etc. are all useful tools to help us do this. <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I received a lot of comments on the following post: She says this is my problem, not hers\u2026. And I\u2019d like to address them all at once if possible. That \u201caffair with yourself\u201d suggestion scares the living daylights out of me. It sounds so wrong, somehow. It seems like anyone who gave themselves permission to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":766,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-405","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nComments on "She says this is my problem, not hers..."<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"I received a lot of comments on the following post: She says this is my problem, not hers....And I'd like to address them all at once if possible. 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