{"id":456,"date":"2009-07-14T23:55:00","date_gmt":"2009-07-14T23:55:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities\/"},"modified":"2012-09-24T22:32:18","modified_gmt":"2012-09-25T03:32:18","slug":"where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html","title":{"rendered":"Where is the line drawn between right and wrong on the continuum of sexual activities?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>
It seems this commenter<\/span><\/a> believes that we as members must be commanded in all things if we\u2019re to know what God\u2019s will is for each of us. I understand it\u2019s convenient and easy to <\/span><\/span>categorically<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> paint certain behaviors as either black or white without regard to <\/span><\/span>circumstance<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span>. He\/she believes people who have justified <\/span><\/span>masturbation<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> in certain contexts have only done it to satisfy selfish, unrighteous desires and doesn\u2019t understand that some may actually be <\/span><\/span>successfully<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> achieving higher levels of sexual intimacy and closeness with their spouse.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/em><\/div>\n

Some of the Jews (as described in the Bible) loved to build \u201cfences\u201d around the principles of the gospel with an excess of laws, and even more excessive treatises interpreting<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> those laws. It\u2019s safe and easy, and requires very little faith or personal revelation to live within the fence of <\/span><\/span>artificially<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> strict, overly generalized, and often man-made <\/span><\/span>interpretations<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span>.<\/span><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

The commenter has strictly interpreted certain statements from the Brethren and believes he\/she knows how each term within those statements should be defined and applied to all members, in all circumstances<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span>. I\u2019d be curious to hear from the commenter where the line is drawn between right and wrong on this continuum of sexual activities:<\/span><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

If a spouse briefly touches their own genitals during sex, is that masturbation<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span>?<\/span><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

If a spouse intentionally<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> stimulates themselves during sex, is that <\/span><\/span>masturbation<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span>?<\/span><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

If a spouse intentionally<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> stimulates themselves while the other watches, is that sex within the bonds of marriage or sinful <\/span><\/span>masturbation<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span>?<\/span><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

What if the other watches from a few feet away? From another room? Only listens over the phone? Is that between husband and wife, or just \u201cbetween a man and his hand or woman and her vibrator [or hand]\u201d?<\/em><\/p>\n

What if one spouse tells the other about masturbating<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> after the fact? Is that sharing sexual intimacy between husband and wife, or not?<\/span><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

Perhaps the Jews have a treatise on this very topic with clear-cut rules that we can consult.<\/em><\/p>\n

Besides being very presumptuous<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> about what the <\/span><\/span>Brethrens<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span>\u2018 statements mean, your comment shows little faith in the Saints\u2019 ability to learn correct principles and govern themselves. My point here isn\u2019t to convince anyone that <\/span><\/span>masturbation<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> is okay, rather it\u2019s to show that there is a gradient of differing shades of gray that require faith and thoughtful inquiry to discern the good from the bad in one\u2019s OWN life and marriage. In my marriage, we have decided what we believe to be in perfect harmony with gospel principles and what is not. What will strengthen our bond, and what will weaken it.<\/span><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

Is it possible that the statements you\u2019re mentioning aren\u2019t as cut and dried as you claim they are? That maybe some ambiguities exist that require us to exercise our free agency and God-given intellect, in consultation<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> with our spouse and the Spirit?<\/span><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n


\n<\/span><\/div>\n
I think you bring up many excellent points that I wholeheartedly agree with:<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
\n
    \n
  • The right that each couple has to discuss and agree on their sexual parameters between themselves and the Lord, taking into account things that have been counseled by our leaders.<\/span><\/li>\n
  • The fact that as part of human tendency we tend to box ourselves into interpretations, patterns, or behaviors we are already comfortable with. It is difficult to look at things in ways we may not agree with \u2013 or have not thought of before.<\/span><\/li>\n
  • That different situations and circumstances bring about a \u201cshade of gray\u201d that is not cut and dried for everyone.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n

    I do want to clarify, although I know you already agree, that the sexual situations where you describe husband and wife self-stimulating during joint intercourse should not be deemed as inappropriate masturbation. Of course, these types of comments of mine are always made with the assumption that both spouses are comfortable with such said acts. <\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n


    \n<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
    My only concern with both this comment and the original comment is that there seems to be a certain amount of tension present. We are all partaking in the process of communication on this site. And we are usually communicating about personal, sensitive and sacred issues. Therefore, there can be a tendency on any side of the equation to take offense, make judgments of others, and\/or feel justified in one\u2019s position. I encourage all commenters, including myself :), to do so in a respectful and Christlike fashion so that we can be most successful in this endeavor of sharing our opinions, experiences, questions, etc. I am asking that this be a safe environment for all. After all, it doesn\u2019t matter so much if we are right, but rather that we are heard. Thank you all for already making this a very successful endeavor for, I believe, the majority of visitors to this blog. You all have had such valuable input! <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

    \n<\/span><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    It seems this commenter believes that we as members must be commanded in all things if we\u2019re to know what God\u2019s will is for each of us. I understand it\u2019s convenient and easy to categorically paint certain behaviors as either black or white without regard to circumstance. He\/she believes people who have justified masturbation in […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":766,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[22,16,1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-456","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-masturbation","category-sexuality","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nWhere is the line drawn between right and wrong on the continuum of sexual activities?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"It seems this commenter believes that we as members must be commanded in all things if we're to know what God's will is for each of us. I understand it's\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Where is the line drawn between right and wrong on the continuum of sexual activities?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"It seems this commenter believes that we as members must be commanded in all things if we're to know what God's will is for each of us. I understand it's\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Mormon Therapist\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-07-14T23:55:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2012-09-25T03:32:18+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Natasha Helfer\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Natasha Helfer\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html\",\"name\":\"Where is the line drawn between right and wrong on the continuum of sexual activities?\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2009-07-14T23:55:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2012-09-25T03:32:18+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#\/schema\/person\/78971842fa93736d2376df2cd2ea8f54\"},\"description\":\"It seems this commenter believes that we as members must be commanded in all things if we're to know what God's will is for each of us. I understand it's\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Where is the line drawn between right and wrong on the continuum of sexual activities?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/\",\"name\":\"The Mormon Therapist\",\"description\":\"A safe, confidential "advice column" to get your questions answered.\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#\/schema\/person\/78971842fa93736d2376df2cd2ea8f54\",\"name\":\"Natasha Helfer\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/85a797b548b6d0665ff186fb58c34aa3?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/85a797b548b6d0665ff186fb58c34aa3?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Natasha Helfer\"},\"sameAs\":[\"http:\/\/natashaparker.org\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/author\/natashaparker\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Where is the line drawn between right and wrong on the continuum of sexual activities?","description":"It seems this commenter believes that we as members must be commanded in all things if we're to know what God's will is for each of us. I understand it's","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Where is the line drawn between right and wrong on the continuum of sexual activities?","og_description":"It seems this commenter believes that we as members must be commanded in all things if we're to know what God's will is for each of us. I understand it's","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html","og_site_name":"The Mormon Therapist","article_published_time":"2009-07-14T23:55:00+00:00","article_modified_time":"2012-09-25T03:32:18+00:00","author":"Natasha Helfer","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Natasha Helfer","Est. reading time":"4 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html","name":"Where is the line drawn between right and wrong on the continuum of sexual activities?","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-07-14T23:55:00+00:00","dateModified":"2012-09-25T03:32:18+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#\/schema\/person\/78971842fa93736d2376df2cd2ea8f54"},"description":"It seems this commenter believes that we as members must be commanded in all things if we're to know what God's will is for each of us. I understand it's","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/2009\/07\/where-is-the-line-drawn-between-right-and-wrong-on-the-continuum-of-sexual-activities.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Where is the line drawn between right and wrong on the continuum of sexual activities?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/","name":"The Mormon Therapist","description":"A safe, confidential "advice column" to get your questions answered.","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#\/schema\/person\/78971842fa93736d2376df2cd2ea8f54","name":"Natasha Helfer","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/85a797b548b6d0665ff186fb58c34aa3?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/85a797b548b6d0665ff186fb58c34aa3?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Natasha Helfer"},"sameAs":["http:\/\/natashaparker.org"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/author\/natashaparker"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/456","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/766"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=456"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/456\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=456"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=456"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/mormontherapist\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=456"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}