{"id":97,"date":"2010-04-16T08:20:51","date_gmt":"2010-04-16T14:20:51","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/mormonportal\/?p=97"},"modified":"2010-04-16T08:20:51","modified_gmt":"2010-04-16T14:20:51","slug":"a-problem-with-the-problem-of-evil","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/oneeternalround\/2010\/04\/a-problem-with-the-problem-of-evil\/","title":{"rendered":"A problem with the LDS solution to the Problem of Evil?"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>There are a few problems with the Mormon solution to the problem of evil. I\u2019m not saying I disbelieve possible LDS solutions, but only to say they don\u2019t come without downsides, however slight. First I\u2019ll describe the problem of evil (over-simplistically) then I\u2019ll address a problem with the LDS response.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"font-size: x-large\">\u201cTheodicy\u201d Briefly Explained:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Before serving a \u00a0mission when I turned 19 I\u2019d never heard of \u201ctheodicy,\u201d theological responses to the problem of evil. The problem is that evil exists and we don\u2019t like it. Theodicies are ways to justify God\u2019s goodness and power in the face of the evil around us. How could an all-powerful and loving God allow such suffering and sorrow in the world? LDS philosopher Truman Madsen explained it quite nicely in his \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/www.ldsaudio.com\/shop\/audio_item.aspx?id=2044\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Timeless Questions,\u00a0Gospel\u00a0Insights<\/a>\u201d lectures. Truman described a triangle with three points, any one of which would call into question the other two. Here\u2019s my handy MS Paint attempt:<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/i863.photobucket.com\/albums\/ab192\/lifeongoldplates\/theodicy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"389\" height=\"355\"><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\">This triangle assumes that evil exists (some deny this premise from the get-go but I\u2019m not addressing them here). What does the existence of evil tell us about God\u2019s qualities? He is thought to be omnipotent (all-powerful). He is thought to be omnibenevolent (all loving). Yet evil exists. So, either God\u00a0<em>cannot <\/em>prevent evil, and is thus not omnipotent, or he\u00a0<em>doesn\u2019t want to<\/em>, and is thus not all-loving.\u00a0This problem is particularly acute for people who believe God created the world\u00a0<em>ex nihilo<\/em> (out of nothing). Ostensibly, God could have created a world without evil but didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left\"><strong><span style=\"font-size: x-large\">LDS Theodicy:<\/span><\/strong><br>\nJoseph Smith\u2019s revelations give Latter-day Saints a different perspective on God\u2019s relation to the world. Kathleen Flake described it this way:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>[In LDS thought] evil is uncreated and co-eternal with good and God; so are we. Evil, like God and us, simply is, but evil pollutes, like a fly in the ointment, God\u2019s order for the flourishing of human life in God\u2019s image. Thus, in <a href='https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/library\/mormonism' target='_blank'>Mormonism<\/a>, most of the bad experiences in this life are explained in terms of humans choosing the fly over the ointment. But, notwithstanding this interplay of independent agency and existence, evil\u2019s uncreatedness does not place it beyond God\u2019s power; neither is God blind to or unmoved by evil\u2019s effect\u2026[Evil\u2019s] limits are set, but God\u2019s are not. Why God doesn\u2019t prevent evil immediately is a function of a world comprised of competing agencies, pending final judgment\u2026<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<blockquote><p>For Latter-day Saints, God\u2019s mightiness to save is defined not by his capacity to prevent evil, but to create good when only evil seems possible. He doesn\u2019t turn evil into good, but he overcomes it with the good.<a href=\"#1\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><sup>1<\/sup><\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong><span style=\"font-size: x-large\">Possible Problem: <\/span><\/strong><br>\nLonger and more complex responses to the problem of evil have been crafted by Latter-day Saints.<span style=\"font-size: small\"><span><a href=\"#2\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><sup>2<\/sup><\/a><\/span><\/span> Our solutions don\u2019t come without\u00a0potential downsides, of course. One such downside was pointed out to me by a Catholic friend during a conversation about Verdi\u2019s \u201cRequiem,\u201d which was performed last week by the Utah Symphony Orchestra. He commented on the lyrics of the piece:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>To appreciate what is meant by\u00a0<span style=\"font-style: normal\">Requiem aeternam dona eis <\/span>[from the Catholic Mass], it requires a conception of a God who is able to satisfy the soul in a genuinely eternal way: so that by grasping him, we grasp the whole of our own happiness and need labor no further, just as God himself sanctifies creation by resting, and speaks of heaven and the temple as \u201cmy rest.\u201d (Ps 132:4; Heb 3:11, cf. Ps 95:11).<a href=\"#3\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><sup>3<\/sup><\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Of course, I believe this description of God resting overlooks other scriptures, including LDS verses about God weeping.<a href=\"#4\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><sup>4<\/sup><\/a>\u00a0Mormons also have uniquely LDS scriptures discussing eternal rest (e.g.\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/2_ne\/24\/3#3\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">2 Ne. 24: 3<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/jacob\/1\/7#7\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Jacob 1:7<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/enos\/1\/27#27\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Enos 1:27<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/alma\/12\/34#34\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Alma 12:34<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/alma\/13\/6,29#6\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">13:6, 29<\/a>;<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/alma\/40\/12#12\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">40:12<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/3_ne\/27\/19#19\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">3 Nephi 27:19<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/3_ne\/28\/3#3\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">28:3<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/moro\/7\/3#3\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Moroni 7:3<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/moro\/9\/6#6\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">9:6<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/moro\/10\/34#34\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">10:34<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/dc\/15\/6#6\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">D&amp;C 15:6<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/dc\/59\/2#2\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">59:2<\/a>;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/dc\/121\/32#32\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">121:32<\/a>, etc.).<\/p>\n<p>At the same time, we believe in \u201ceternal progression,\u201d which seems to imply action (<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/dc\/101\/31#31\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">D&amp;C 101:31<\/a> has interesting implications, tying rest and glory together, considering D&amp;C 76). One of Joseph\u2019s revelations explicitly ties rest to works:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cIf they live here let them live unto me; and if they die let them die unto me; for they shall rest from all their labors here, and shall continue their works\u201d (<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/dc\/124\/86#86\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"color: black\">D&amp;C 124:86<\/span><\/a>).<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>This goes to show how a Mormon view of the afterlife might not be entirely appealing to everyone, and perhaps\u00a0<em>especially <\/em>to those who deal with great tragedy in life and look forward to eternal rest.<\/p>\n<p>On the Mormon view, it is possible to say that evil\u00a0<em>itself<\/em> may never entirely be overcome for everyone. A nice eternity of nothing but resting, where there are no more tears because God wipes them away forever (<a href=\"http:\/\/scriptures.lds.org\/en\/rev\/21\/4#4\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Rev. 21:4<\/a>), doesn\u2019t seem to be in the game plan for Mormons. Or maybe it\u2019s an option in a particular degree of glory?<\/p>\n<p>In short: many non-Mormon theodicies appeal to mystery\u2013that our sorrow here is God\u2019s mysterious will but that all will be made up to us in a wonderful eternity of rest. This doesn\u2019t help confirm God\u2019s goodness and loving nature in the here and now. On the other hand, the Mormon view\u00a0exonerates\u00a0God here and now by explaining that he is not the creator or delighter in evil, but that through Him evil can be overcome. Eternity, though, may not be that easy and comfortable rest hoped for by my Catholic friend<span style=\"font-size: small\"><span>.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: small\"><span>FOOTNOTES<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: small\"><span><\/span><\/span><a name=\"1\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">[1]<\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: small\"><span><span style=\"font-size: small\">Kathleen Flake, \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/newsweek.washingtonpost.com\/onfaith\/panelists\/kathleen_flake\/2007\/09\/making_good_for_evil.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Making Good For, Not From Evil<\/a>,\u201d\u00a0<em>The Washington Post, <\/em>7 September 2007.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><a name=\"2\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">[2]<\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: small\"><span>For instance, see\u00a0Blake T. Ostler, and David L. Paulsen, \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/maxwellinstitute.byu.edu\/publications\/books\/?bookid=100&amp;chapid=1111\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Sin, Suffering, and Soul-Making: Joseph Smith on the Problem of Evil<\/a>,\u201d in Donald W. Parry, Daniel C. Peterson, and Stephen D. Ricks eds.,\u00a0<em>Revelation, Reason, and Faith: Essays in Honor of Truman G. Madsen<\/em>, (Provo: FARMS, 2002).<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><a name=\"3\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">[3]<\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: small\"><span>My friend goes by the name \u201cSoren\u201d at the online forum MormonApologetics.org. See the discussion\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.mormonapologetics.org\/topic\/48872-verdis-requiem\/page__view__findpost__p__1208833226\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">here<\/a>.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><a name=\"4\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">[4]<\/a><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: small\"><span>See Daniel C. Peterson, \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/maxwellinstitute.byu.edu\/publications\/books\/?bookid=100&amp;chapid=1112\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">On the Motif of the Weeping God in Moses 7<\/a>,\u201d in Donald W. Parry, Daniel C. Peterson, and Stephen D. Ricks eds.,\u00a0<em>Revelation, Reason, and Faith: Essays in Honor of Truman G. Madsen<\/em>, (Provo: FARMS, 2002).<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>There are a few problems with the Mormon solution to the problem of evil. I\u2019m not saying I disbelieve possible LDS solutions, but only to say they don\u2019t come without downsides, however slight. First I\u2019ll describe the problem of evil (over-simplistically) then I\u2019ll address a problem with the LDS response.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":315,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[9,11,19,1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-97","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-doctrine","category-interfaith","category-speculation","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>A problem with the LDS solution to the Problem of Evil?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"There are a few problems with the Mormon solution to the problem of evil. 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