{"id":148,"date":"2011-01-19T13:48:00","date_gmt":"2011-01-19T20:48:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/permissiontolive\/2011\/01\/spanking-and-trust\/"},"modified":"2012-12-20T15:04:18","modified_gmt":"2012-12-20T22:04:18","slug":"spanking-and-trust","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/permissiontolive\/2011\/01\/spanking-and-trust.html","title":{"rendered":"Spanking and Trust"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both;text-align: center\"><a href=\"https:\/\/2.bp.blogspot.com\/_q6xr29KDh2g\/TTc46iLV7gI\/AAAAAAAAApE\/XwgOAAbU7tw\/s1600\/4341121304_e45b916755_z.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" height=\"214px\" src=\"https:\/\/2.bp.blogspot.com\/_q6xr29KDh2g\/TTc46iLV7gI\/AAAAAAAAApE\/XwgOAAbU7tw\/s320\/4341121304_e45b916755_z.jpg\" width=\"320px\"><\/a><\/div>\n<p><\/p>\n<div style=\"border-bottom: medium none;border-left: medium none;border-right: medium none;border-top: medium none\">Recently Ms Drama had some dry skin patches on her lower back. One night I was rubbing some lotion on the dry spots for her and without warning she flopped onto my lap, lying over my knees, her body\u00a0completely relaxed. My instant reaction was shock, and after a moment I realized why.<\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center\">**************<\/div>\n<p>I remember being 9 or 10 and asking my mom for help with my clothes. The zipper on the back of my dress was stuck and I couldn\u2019t reach it with enough strength to pull it open. It proved difficult for my mom too, and when she couldn\u2019t get it open she asked me to bend over so she could see what she was doing better. My body couldn\u2019t do it. I heard what she was asking me to do, and my head told my body to bend over so she could get to the zipper, but my back went rigid. <\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: large\">I was afraid.<\/span> <\/p>\n<p>My mom repeated her request and I tried to stiffly move forward a little bit, she realized what was happening and laughed \u201cI\u2019m not going to spank you, just bend over so I can see the zipper.\u201d <\/p>\n<p>Rationally, I guess I knew she wasn\u2019t going to spank me, I hadn\u2019t done anything wrong. But my body still fought. I did the best I could, but I could hardly move and the whole time she was fixing the zipper. Every muscle in my body was clenched in anticipation of being hit. My mind told me that I\u00a0<em>should<\/em> trust my mom, but the muscles in my body told me that I <em>couldn\u2019t<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: large\">In contrast<\/span>, my little daughter who has not been spanked in over a year, trusted me completely. When she flopped over my knee I went stiff from the memory of many spankings from long ago. She, on the other hand, was completely at ease, knowing that I was going to help her and not hurt her. <\/p>\n<p><\/p>\n<div style=\"text-align: center\">***************<\/div>\n<p><\/p>\n<div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both;text-align: center\"><a href=\"https:\/\/4.bp.blogspot.com\/_q6xr29KDh2g\/TTc5CemKkJI\/AAAAAAAAApM\/pP-xwX76XNg\/s1600\/dimage_2_bg_012706.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" height=\"240px\" src=\"https:\/\/4.bp.blogspot.com\/_q6xr29KDh2g\/TTc5CemKkJI\/AAAAAAAAApM\/pP-xwX76XNg\/s320\/dimage_2_bg_012706.jpg\" width=\"320px\"><\/a><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: large\">There are many<\/span> Christian authors and teachers that promote the idea that spanking is a necessary or at the very least helpful part of \u201cgodly\u201d child training. Many people try to paint the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.nogreaterjoy.org\/nc\/articles\/general-view\/archive\/\/\/\/angry-child\/?tx_ttnews\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Michael Pearls<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com\/ch08.asp\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Elizabeth Kreugers<\/a> of the world as the \u201cExtremists\u201d. But one of the most famous and well known proponents of corporal punishment is <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/James_Dobson\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Dr James Dobson<\/a>, author of \u201cDare to Discipline\u201d and \u201cThe Strong-willed Child\u201d. He is often called \u201cAmerica\u2019s most trusted parenting expert\u201d, which is kind of scary considering his approach to parenting.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: large\">A common theme<\/span> in Dr Dobson\u2019s writings, is the portrayal of the child as sin laden, selfish and destructive. In fact the whole point seems to be pitting the parent against the child, as the parent you\u00a0<em>must<\/em> win at all costs. Discipline is a battle after all, are you up to the challenge? Dr Dobson recommends spanking children from the age of 18 months using an implement (Although on page 47 of \u201cThe Strong willed child\u201d he talks about not spanking an 8 month old through their diaper?) and he is indefinite on when\u00a0spanking ceases to be \u201ceffective\u201d. His teachings on spanking for \u201cattitude\u201d could very easily lead to \u201cmarathon\u201d spankings since he advocates spanking the child again if they are \u201ccrying for too long\u201d or \u201ccrying to punish the parent\u201d, since the parent\u00a0<em>has<\/em> to \u201cwin\u201d, this could devolve into the parent spanking over and over until he child has managed to pull together a docile enough demeanor.<\/p>\n<p>To read more direct quotes from his books that summarize the parent vs. child mentality, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.dailykos.com\/story\/2006\/9\/21\/184017\/640\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">check out this page<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>This mentality is perpetuated by many other christian authors.\u00a0I\u2019ve heard\u00a0Tedd Tripp\u2019s book \u201cShepherding a Child\u2019s Heart\u201d touted as being \u201cmore grace based\u201d.\u00a0The title\u00a0sounds sweet, but it\u2019s just a repeat of all the others. He advocates spanking with an implement at an early age (also presenting spanking as the only effective discipline), giving specific instructions on how to spank children and babies based on their perceived motivations. And of course, he promotes the idea that the primary motivations of children are dark and fallen. <\/p>\n<p>Tripp argues that the goal of\u00a0spanking is not punitive, but corrective. Which is actually the same <a href=\"http:\/\/www.nogreaterjoy.org\/articles\/general-view\/archive\/2001\/may\/01\/in-defense-of-biblical-chastisement-part-1\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">exact argument that Michael Pearl uses<\/a>. He also links\u00a0<em>every<\/em> behavior to a \u201cheart issue\u201d, as if childish behavior is some sort of internal spiritual problem. Yes, he argues for \u201cchanging a child\u2019s heart\u201d vs. \u201cgaining conformity of behavior\u201d, but he claims that spanking should be used to \u201crestore relationship\u201d (with God, and parents). As if the physical discipline of children somehow \u201credeems\u201d the child of it\u2019s faults? The whole premise is that god\u00a0<em><u>demands<\/u><\/em> obedience and that we must make it clear to our children that \u201cdefiance\u201d to authority is not an option. <\/p>\n<p>Read <a href=\"http:\/\/tripptomars.blogspot.com\/2008\/09\/post-i-wish-i-didnt-have-to-write-tripp.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">here<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/metropolitanmama.net\/tag\/parenting-books-i-do-not-recommend\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">here<\/a> to get some more information on \u201cShepherding a child\u2019s heart\u201d. <\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: large\">Discipline and spanking<\/span> are usually closely linked in Evangelical christian parenting books, the terms are often used interchangeably. <a href=\"http:\/\/ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com\/2010\/04\/what-to-do-when-you-dont-spank.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Gentle discipline techniques<\/a> are not emphasized. And in reading most \u201cbiblically based\u201d parenting books that advocate corporal punishment, you get the distinct impression that without proper spanking, children will grow up completely undisciplined and unruly and most definitely\u00a0<em><u>not<\/u><\/em> interested in becoming a Christian. A decline in spanking is what is wrong with children\u2019s behavior today! They all seem to shout. I would argue that a decline in general attention for and communication with our children is the more probable cause.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: large\">Of course, there are rules.<\/span> One general rule that seems to apply universally in these books\u00a0is <em>\u201cdon\u2019t spank in anger\u201d.<\/em> Another is that you are just establishing who is in charge, not <em>\u201cruling your children by fear.\u201d<\/em> <\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t think it\u2019s that simple though. Who defines anger? And why is a calm business like infliction of pain more acceptable than an \u201cangry\u201d one. The calm spanking sounds much more callous, and frankly a bit scary. (Even our legal system recognizes the difference between a crime of passion and pre-meditated harm.) How does this foster trust when the child knows that the parent can hurt them so calmly and seemingly without feeling? Is this method really encouraging communication between parent and child when the parent feels obligated to hurt their child and the child feels pressured to please the parent or else be spanked?<\/p>\n<div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both;text-align: center\"><a href=\"https:\/\/4.bp.blogspot.com\/_q6xr29KDh2g\/TTc42FISXjI\/AAAAAAAAApA\/6uK3n3VhlRg\/s1600\/300px-Scared_Child_at_Nighttime.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" height=\"320px\" src=\"https:\/\/4.bp.blogspot.com\/_q6xr29KDh2g\/TTc42FISXjI\/AAAAAAAAApA\/6uK3n3VhlRg\/s320\/300px-Scared_Child_at_Nighttime.jpg\" width=\"256px\"><\/a><\/div>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: large\">Is pain<\/span> really an effective \u201cfear free\u201d way to establish authority? I would argue that the reason a parent can get short term compliance by spanking a child, is because they are afraid of getting spanked again. Sounds like fear to me. And hasn\u2019t this approach been used before historically? Look at the Inquisition for example. Obviously I am not talking about using the methods of torture they used, but the mindset is the same. Use pain to force compliance and get results. Get people to recant their heresy and say what they were supposed to believe. And yet, did that method really work? Yes, maybe some people \u201cconverted\u201d, but many recanted later, and some went to their death rather than change their minds. Why do we think that spanking can open the door to a life of Christian faith?<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve shared <a href=\"http:\/\/ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com\/2010\/08\/i-quit-spanking.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">my journey as a parent who quit spanking.<\/a> But I don\u2019t really feel ready to share much of my own experience of being spanked as a child, or having siblings that got spanked. Here are several stories from people who grew up being spanked the \u201cChristian way\u201d, I resonated with all of them. Please read them to understand a bit more of the child\u2019s perspective of corporal punishment.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/whynottrainachild.com\/2010\/11\/17\/my-experiences-with-spanking\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">My Experiences with Spanking<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/livingwhoiam.blogspot.com\/2010\/12\/processing-spanking.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Processing Spanking<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.drmomma.org\/2010\/01\/how-spanking-changed-my-life.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">How Spanking changed my life<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/greenegem.wordpress.com\/2010\/10\/16\/regarding-punishments\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Regarding Punishments<\/a><\/p>\n<p><\/p>\n<div style=\"text-align: center\">************<\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center\"><\/div>\n<div style=\"border-bottom: medium none;border-left: medium none;border-right: medium none;border-top: medium none\"><a href=\"https:\/\/1.bp.blogspot.com\/_q6xr29KDh2g\/TTc48gTAhbI\/AAAAAAAAApI\/xBf1VLSwtYo\/s1600\/4725938892_c5bde8b5ef_b.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" height=\"320px\" src=\"https:\/\/1.bp.blogspot.com\/_q6xr29KDh2g\/TTc48gTAhbI\/AAAAAAAAApI\/xBf1VLSwtYo\/s320\/4725938892_c5bde8b5ef_b.jpg\" width=\"255px\"><\/a><span style=\"font-size: large\">Lastly, i<\/span><span style=\"font-size: large\">f Jesus died<\/span> to take the punishments for our sins, why do Christian parents punish their children? Is it a belief that somehow His sacrifice wasn\u2019t enough for children? Or maybe they don\u2019t qualify for His forgiveness until a certain age? Yes, sometimes there are consequences for some actions, but when did spanking become that consequence for children? Why did these parenting books seem to have so much \u201cbiblical\u201d basis for corporal punishment? I know that I used to believe them, and I felt like I was being \u201cunchristian\u201d if I dared to think otherwise. So for anyone who has had those same struggles, I wanted to share a few series on the biblical reasoning for gentle discipline.<\/div>\n<div style=\"border-bottom: medium none;border-left: medium none;border-right: medium none;border-top: medium none\"><a href=\"http:\/\/greenegem.wordpress.com\/2010\/10\/23\/spanking-and-proverbs-part-1-context\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">First of a series of 3 posts on Spanking and Proverbs.<\/a><\/div>\n<p><\/p>\n<div style=\"border-bottom: medium none;border-left: medium none;border-right: medium none;border-top: medium none\"><a href=\"http:\/\/whynottrainachild.com\/2011\/01\/04\/spanking-not-gods-will-1\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">First of a 5 part series on Why Spanking is not God\u2019s will<\/a>\n<\/div>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.churchesfornon-violence.org\/Ten%20Reasons%20I%20Can.pdf\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">A Christian Father and Dr shares why his religion does not let him feel comfortable with Spanking<\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both;text-align: center\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Recently Ms Drama had some dry skin patches on her lower back. One night I was rubbing some lotion on the dry spots for her and without warning she flopped onto my lap, lying over my knees, her body\u00a0completely relaxed. My instant reaction was shock, and after a moment I realized why. ************** I remember [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1145,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[22,27,31,11],"tags":[12,46,18],"class_list":["post-148","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-conservative-christianity","category-discipline","category-my-childhood","category-parenting","tag-children","tag-parenting-questions","tag-spanking"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Spanking and Trust<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Recently Ms Drama had some dry skin patches on her lower back. 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One night I was rubbing some lotion on the dry spots for her and without warning she\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/permissiontolive\/2011\/01\/spanking-and-trust.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Permission to Live\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2011-01-19T20:48:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2012-12-20T22:04:18+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/2.bp.blogspot.com\/_q6xr29KDh2g\/TTc46iLV7gI\/AAAAAAAAApE\/XwgOAAbU7tw\/s320\/4341121304_e45b916755_z.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Melissa\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Melissa\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"7 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/permissiontolive\/2011\/01\/spanking-and-trust.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/permissiontolive\/2011\/01\/spanking-and-trust.html\",\"name\":\"Spanking and Trust\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/permissiontolive\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2011-01-19T20:48:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2012-12-20T22:04:18+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/permissiontolive\/#\/schema\/person\/3d527e70377dd342d19384a186015af8\"},\"description\":\"Recently Ms Drama had some dry skin patches on her lower back. 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