{"id":864,"date":"2011-09-16T13:04:16","date_gmt":"2011-09-16T17:04:16","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/philosophicalfragments\/?p=864"},"modified":"2011-09-16T13:04:16","modified_gmt":"2011-09-16T17:04:16","slug":"are-mormon-and-evangelical-views-of-god-really-that-different","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/philosophicalfragments\/2011\/09\/16\/are-mormon-and-evangelical-views-of-god-really-that-different\/","title":{"rendered":"Are Mormon and Evangelical Views of God Really That Different?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Because of a certain person who shall go nameless \u2014 let\u2019s call him M. Romney or Mitt R. \u2014 the question of Mormon differences from historical Christianity has been very much in the air. \u00a0Not too long ago, for instance, we published an article (part of a broader discussion on the topic) in which Warren Cole Smith explained<\/a> why he, as an evangelical, could not vote for a Mormon. \u00a0This became a very controversial piece, eliciting no fewer than three responses in the Washington Post. \u00a0I have staked out the opposite position: as an evangelical, I\u2019m very comfortable voting for a Mormon. \u00a0But Warren and I agree on a more fundamentally theologically question: we both believe there are clear and important theological differences between Mormonism<\/a> and historical Christianity. \u00a0Those differences worry Warren when he assesses a presidential candidate, while I don\u2019t believe those differences would lead a Mormon to make different policy decisions than a Christian.<\/p>\n

Now, along comes a study that purports to show that Americans in general are more Mormon in their theology than they might be prepared to admit. \u00a0The study comes from Gary Lawrence, a Ph.D. from Stanford (which earns him plaudits in my book, being a Stanford man myself) and a Latter-Day Saint.<\/p>\n

You can read about it in this piece<\/a> from the Deseret News\u2019 excellent religion reporter, Michael DeGroote. \u00a0As you\u2019ll discover if you read the article, DeGroote asked for my perspective on a couple questions in the study \u2014 and I\u2019ll flesh it out in detail here. \u00a0The two questions under discussion are these:<\/p>\n

QUESTION A: Half of those polled were asked: Do you believe that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are:<\/em><\/p>\n

    \n
  1. \u201cthree separate beings\u201d \u2014 27%<\/li>\n
  2. \u201cthree Beings in one body or substance\u201d \u2014 66%<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    QUESTION B: The other half were asked: The New Testament says that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one. \u00a0Do you believe that means they are:<\/em><\/p>\n

      \n
    1. \u201cone in purpose\u201d \u2014 58%<\/li>\n
    2. \u201cone in body\u201d \u2014 31%<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

      When Michael read the questions aloud to me, I started chuckling before he had finished. \u00a0Do you see the slipperiness in the questions? \u00a0From the article:<\/p>\n

      Lawrence said that Mormons say the oneness of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the New Testament is an oneness of purpose. The positive response of Christians to this concept in the second question surprised Lawrence. \u201cI was wondering if there was a difference. I wasn\u2019t expecting a flip-flop. But it was. It just shifts from two-to-one one way and almost two-to-one the other way,\u201d Lawrence said.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

      In other words, the first question gets more or less the results you would expect. \u00a0Traditional Christians know they cannot say that God is \u201cthree separate beings\u201d (the Mormon view, roughly speaking) so they choose the other option: God is \u201cthree beings in one body or substance.\u201d \u00a0When they do not choose to say that the Triune God is \u201cone in body\u201d in the next question (only 31% say that), then Dr. Lawrence calls this a \u201cflip-flop.\u201d \u00a0When you focus on the differentiation in the Trinity, he says, Christians by and large do not accept the Mormon view. \u00a0When you focus on the manner of their unity, however, orthodox Christians show that they really agree with Mormonism. \u00a0But is this really a flip-flop?<\/p>\n

      Of course not \u2014 and anyone should be able to see why. \u00a0The first question asks whether the Triune God is \u201cthree Beings in one body or substance<\/em>,\u201d whereas the second question just says \u201cone in body\u201d (i.e., no \u201csubstance\u201d option is given here).<\/p>\n

      QUESTION A puts together two very, very different options into a single answer. \u00a0As shown by the low percentage who answer \u201cone in body\u201d in Question B, Christians know they should not say that the Triune God is \u201cone in body\u201d (because God is immaterial). \u00a0But they also know they cannot say that God is three separate beings. \u00a0So they say \u201cone in body or substance,\u201d but they really mean \u201cone in substance.\u201d \u00a0The orthodox language is that God is three Persons (hypostases \u2013 \u201cBeings\u201d here is not good language) in one substance (ousia). \u00a0But this is like asking: \u201cDo you believe that Jesus is (1) a vegetable, or (2) a devil or the Son of God?\u201d \u00a0You would have to choose B, right? \u00a0But that hardly implies you believe that Jesus is the devil.<\/p>\n

      QUESTION B then reduces the options in order to get an opposite result. \u00a0If I went on to ask, \u201cDo you believe Jesus is the devil?\u201d, then I could not accuse people who answered in the negative of flip-flopping, because I really wasn\u2019t asking equivalent questions. \u00a0But Question B is deceptive in another way. \u00a0My understanding is that the people polled were encouraged to answer one of the two options (although some apparently wriggled out). \u00a0Now, given a choice between \u201cone in body\u201d and \u201cone in purpose,\u201d I too would have to choose \u201cone in purpose\u201d because \u201cone in body\u201d is repugnant to historical theology. \u00a0So, yes, it\u2019s true enough that they are united in purpose, but I also believe they are united in other ways that are profoundly important (such as being one in substance). \u00a0This is one way in which these kinds of \u201cwhich one is closer\u201d questions can be misleading.<\/p>\n

      Lawrence, however, defended his wording of the questions, \u201cThe average American is not a trained theologian in any denomination. And so you have to phrase the question to capture the variable you want in words that the respondent can readily relate to and understand.\u201d\u2026To Lawrence, the difference in wording between \u201cone in body\u201d and \u201cone in substance\u201d is \u201ctheological minutia\u201d and wouldn\u2019t have made a difference.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

      But this is absurd. \u00a0First, the problem is not one of theological wording. \u00a0It\u2019s a logical problem. \u00a0You cannot claim that \u201cX is A or B\u201d conflicts with \u201cX is not B.\u201d \u00a0There is simply no justification for altering the wording in the two questions and then being surprised when you receive different results. \u00a0Also, neither Mormons nor orthodox Christians will agree that it\u2019s a trivial matter whether the Triune God is one \u201cin substance\u201d or one \u201cin body.\u201d \u00a0These are very different things! \u00a0The possession of bodies is precisely one of the distinguishing factors between Mormon and traditional Christian conceptions of God. \u00a0No orthodox Christian who knows the slightest bit of theology \u2014 and, granted, many don\u2019t \u2014 will refer to the three Persons as united \u201cin body,\u201d whereas every Christian who genuinely knows her theology will affirm that they are united in substance.<\/p>\n

      I\u2019m all for improving relationships between Mormons and evangelicals. \u00a0Many evangelicals have a crude and unfair understanding of Mormon beliefs<\/a> and practices. \u00a0I\u2019m also all for encouraging evangelicals to understand that they can vote for a Mormon in good conscience. \u00a0But there are two principles to bear in mind:<\/p>\n

      First, we do not improve understanding between two communities by blurring the differences between them<\/strong>. \u00a0We cannot articulate the reasons why we believe the things we believe, and we cannot properly understand why another community believes what it believes, until we know exactly the differences between us. \u00a0When we blur the distinctions between two religious groups, we alienate the true believers in those groups (who will see that we\u2019re watering down their beliefs), we create the conditions for explosive misunderstandings later, and \u2014 most importantly \u2014 we do an injustice to the traditions we represent.<\/p>\n

      Second, differences of belief between Mormons and evangelicals can be important theologically<\/em> and even soteriologically<\/em> (in regards to salvation) without being important politically<\/em>.<\/strong> Your personal view on whether the Triune God is \u201cone in substance\u201d or \u201cone in purpose\u201d will not shape your view on the New START Treaty, and it will not shape the way in which you\u2019re likely to respond to an economic crisis. \u00a0Some fundamental theological questions \u2014 questions like the existence of a God, or the sanctity of life, or the importance of family \u2014 will clearly have policy consequences and predictive value for a politician\u2019s behavior, but those happen to be the areas where Mormons and evangelicals are substantially united. \u00a0When it comes to the finer theological distinctions, important though they are, the best guide to what a politician will do or promote in office is what the politician has actually done and promoted in office before<\/em>.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

      Because of a certain person who shall go nameless \u2014 let\u2019s call him M. Romney or Mitt R. \u2014 the question of Mormon differences from historical Christianity has been very much in the air. \u00a0Not too long ago, for instance, we published an article (part of a broader discussion on the topic) in which Warren […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":30,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[15],"tags":[125,135,176,1353,228,249,260,1360,294,1335,1361,354],"class_list":["post-864","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-election-2012","tag-christianity","tag-conservative-politics","tag-evangelical","tag-evangelicalism","tag-huntsman","tag-jon-huntsman","tag-latter-day-saints","tag-mitt-romney","tag-mormon","tag-mormonism","tag-politics","tag-romney"],"yoast_head":"\nAre Mormon and Evangelical Views of God Really That Different? - Philosophical Fragments<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Because of a certain person who shall go nameless -- let's call him M. 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