“Survivors, ready!” The groundbreaking CBS reality series has spawned a new podcast hosted by one of its longest-lasting and most unlikely friendships, between “Survivor: China” player Leslie Nease and Todd Herzog, who won the fifteenth season. Their “Beyond the Torch” podcast, launching this week on Patheos, explores the stories behind the players and even crew members. 
In this exclusive interview, Nease and Herzog talk to DeWayne Hamby of “Reel Faith” about how their transformational friendship began in the roughest conditions and continues today.
Your friendship started on Survivor in China. I would love to hear how it has grown through the years, and what led to this podcast.
Todd: Yeah, obviously, we met in China, and I think that being stranded in the jungle with the elements and the craziness of life happening just makes you bond with the people that you’re with. And you bond extremely quickly. Leslie was instantly the mom figure. She was mama out there, and she was always making sure that we were taken care of, always making sure that we were warm or comfortable. And it was a wonderful comfort to have a mom figure. Leslie is just really easy to get along with. Back then, we had very different opinions on life and religion and whatnot, but we didn’t look at each other as in a negative way because of it. So that’s the beginning of the story. But then after the story, we just continued to grow. But then Leslie went through some crazy life transformations.
Leslie: I think being on “Survivor,” meeting Todd and the others, it was the first time I had really been out of my Christian bubble. I was in the Bible Belt. I was a Christian radio host and a speaker and a writer. I was encouraging people in their faith and very sold out, 100%. Then I went on “Survivor,” and I realized the world is big. My little protective bubble burst, and here I am hearing how people perceived Christians. It was tough. The first time I asked Todd a question. I think it was night one, and only because I’m curious. I had no idea he was gay, but I was like, “So what struggles have you had to overcome in your life that have made you the man that you are today?” And I just think it’s a fun question. I was tired of talking about our favorite foods. I’m like, “Let’s go deep.” And Todd immediately gets defensive, because he knows I’m a Christian, because I had walked out of the temple and we had talked a bit, and he said, “So is that your way of asking if I’m gay?”
Todd: Keep in mind, this is, this is night one. And we were laying in the mud on palm branches because we did not have a shelter yet and it was raining. I definitely, thought it was a passive aggressive way of asking me. That was my assumption.
Leslie: No idea. I thought he had a crush on Courtney. So, like, I was I was like, “Wait, what? You’re gay?” He’s like, “Yeah . . . well, usually when people who are Christians find out I’m gay, they want nothing to do with me.” It was the first time, I think, I realized how the way that they see the world affects other people. And at this point, I had already started to really like him. So, it was very difficult for me to hear that.
Todd: I put a label on you, just like I had assumed you put a label on me,
Leslie: Todd and I, we had nine days together, which doesn’t seem like a lot, but it literally felt like nine weeks. I call it trauma bonding, whether we like it or not, trauma is what “Survivor” is. It’s very traumatic. I mean, you’re literally surviving with these people, and they’re all out trying to win a million dollars. Yet you have these feelings for them, and it’s a lot harder than you think when you go on. So, I get back to the Christian Bible Belt, and all of a sudden, I started asking questions like, “I don’t understand why he would be disqualified from heaven just because of his sexuality.” We talked on the phone a lot. I think we just grew close because I listened to what he had to say and his perspective and he listened to mine. And neither one of us felt like, “Oh, you need to believe the way I do.” We just kind of wanted we were curious, and I think that that was the key to our relationship being what it was and what it is. Over the years, I’ve been through a very, very intense season of deconstruction, especially since about 2016 and now I have my own podcast honoring the journey, also through our podcast. And I do a coaching for people who are leaving religion. And Todd’s been kind of with me through that. And he kind of had his own life struggles. He went through a really, really serious phase of alcoholism where I wasn’t able to be there for him the way I wanted to, but I would always answer the phone if he would call. And that was heartbreaking.
Todd: It all came together at like, a really, kind of perfect time, because, like Leslie said, she went through her metamorphosis, I finally was sober and at a point in my life where life is is good and I’m happy. And she asked me. I’ve always been extremely hesitant about podcasts, just because, it’s never been my thing. I’ve never been one to sit and listen to them and whatnot. But she asked me, and it took me about five minutes, which is crazy, to say yes, because I I always said I would never do one. And I think we’re just at a really good spot in both of our lives where it’s like being around Leslie is not it’s not a chore, it’s not difficult, it’s easy. We’re different enough, but we’re similar enough to enjoy the same things, and we have been through super high highs and super low lows, and we are still friends, and so I feel like because of that, our relationship is pretty solid. I don’t think you could break us, because we’ve been to the bottom and we’ve picked each other up.
“Survivor” was groundbreaking and pioneering. Have either of you played again since China? Would you?
Todd: Neither of us have played again. Both of us would play again.
Leslie: Old school survivors are legendary. It’s so cool. I don’t think I’ll ever be asked back again. I was asked back a couple of times like, but it didn’t work out like with casting, but I was only on for nine days, three episodes. Todd, though, I think there’s probably a chance he could play again.
Todd: I’ve been asking too, and I’ve said yes, but it just never went through. And it’s one of those situations too, where I would play again in a heartbeat, but I also don’t have to, because I’m so proud of how my game went. I don’t want to ruin that.
Leslie: I was called “The old lady,” and now I’m 46, so I guess I’m ancient now,
As much as I enjoyed watching it, it was never something that I was like, “Oh, I think I’d like to do that. I think “The Amazing Race would be fun.
Leslie: I would do “The Amazing Race” with Todd.
Todd: “The Amazing Race” in a heartbeat. However, “Survivor” isn’t fun. I wouldn’t call it fun.
Leslie: Yeah, it’s miserable. It’s miserable and it’s boring,
Todd: But it’s an incredible experience.
I always wondered if you sang a song to pass the time away, do they have to get rights for that clearance? Like, that’s what I was thinking.
Todd: They tell you to stop singing because they can’t get the rights. It was so boring. I had a stick that I played with, that was my entertainment, as I would stick around and like, that is really sad, but if you if you watch, it’s kind of funny, especially at the merge episode, Jeff comes to the camp, and you see me in the background just playing with my stick. And that’s the only time you see me playing with my stick.
Tell me more about what’s up on the podcast.
Leslie: DeWayne, these interviews are so good, and we even in one of the episodes, I’m not sure which one it’ll be, maybe the third one, we interview the girl who used to be over casting for “Survivor,” and she gives us some amazing behind the scenes stuff. And she’s so much fun to talk to. And it was fun because we got to hear like her thoughts about our casting, she remembered us, and we got to laugh, and it was just fun interview. And we’ve already interviewed Sandra, the Queen of “Survivor,” and people from our season. We’ve got some really great ones coming up. It’s just so fun. I love this. I can’t believe I get to do this.
If you estimated the podcast, I know it’s about “Survivor,” but surely you know there’s other things that you put in there. Are there percentages of other subjects you’ve talked a little bit, about spirituality or is it 90% “Survivor”?
Todd:The majority of it, honestly, is not “Survivor.” The majority of it is who this person is and why they wanted to be on “Survivor,” how they but then what their life is like, and what changed in their life. So it’s a lot of it’s a conversation of getting to know people on a on a deeper level,
Leslie: The thing that’s really limiting about reality TV is that, especially for someone like me, who was out early, I was a very one-dimensional character. People only saw one part of who I am. Todd, you got to see a lot more of him, because he was in the entire season. So what’s exciting for me is some of these people who didn’t last until the end, getting to hear their story and seeing them as more multi-dimensional, because that’s who we really are. So I’m, excited about where this is going. I mean, fans are blowing me away. They’re so excited. I get messages every single day on social media about how excited they are. I have so many phone calls that have come in that, you know, people just want to be part of it. It’s like a already people are talking. I mean, even other survivors who are like, “Holy crap. This is such a great idea.”
Todd, what was the few days after you got paid? You get your million-dollar check. How did life, like we talked about on a spiritual level, but how life did life change practically?
Todd: They handed me a million-dollar check. I was in New York with Courtney because we had just done “The Today Show,” and I was scared. I was like, “Courtney, I don’t want to carry a check around for a million dollars.” So, we went to the closest bank and I opened a checking account.
So it’s a real check, then? It’s not like one of those oversized printed out posters?
Todd: Okay, I had, I had a big one, but I went and opened the account, and they obviously wanted to set up stocks and stuff. And I said, “Nope, I just want to open it so it’s somewhere safe.” I got home, and it was very exciting, but I am pretty good with saving money, so nothing super crazy changed. I went back to work. I worked at Starbucks. I tried to keep it all minimal. I went and bought a car, which was, like, a big purchase. But other than that, I’m a bargain shopper. That’s just how I always have been. I’m weird when it comes to saving money, but then I’ll save and go on a vacation. So as far as that goes, Yes, I definitely upped my spending habits, and I bought more stuff, but I still work. I worked every day all the time, and I traveled a lot.
“Beyond the Torch,” hosted by Leslie Nease and Todd Herzog, premieres Tuesday, August 26. Listen and subscribe at this link.
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