I\u2019m happy to provide as much or as little oversight and input into what happens there as may be desired. I have no interest in taking a proprietorial or domineering approach to it. The semester begins next week, and so if I am moving too slowly, by all means make things happen there!<\/p>\n
I do wonder whether and to what extent some of this effort might be better spent, in the long term at least, improving the treatment of these topics on Wikipedia, as opposed to merely starting afresh. But I suspect that the latter is a good way to begin, and if it leads to editing other prominent wikis, that can happen later, once thoughts, arguments, and wording has been honed and polished.<\/p>\n
For those interested in the approach of addressing mythicist claims in the manner of the TalkOrigins Index of Mythicist Claims, here is a first sketch of some of the topics that immediately come to mind and how they might be organized.<\/p>\n
\nAn Index of Mythicist Claims<\/h2>\n
History<\/strong><\/p>\n
\u2013 Methodology<\/p>\n
\n
- Scholars of historical Jesus do not use the same methods as other historians<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\n
- \u00a0 Criteria of authenticity (embarrassment, multiple attestation, etc.)<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Positivism and postmodernism<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
\n
- If most of the information about Jesus is myth, then the rest probably is too<\/li>\n
- It is irrelevant or untrue that, if the mythicist approach were applied to other figures, their existence would also be denied<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\n
- \u00a0 Historical denialism vs. historiographical methods<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Specific examples (Socrates, John the Baptist, Hillel, Muhammad, Apollonius of Tyana)<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
\n
- Historians are influenced by Christian assumptions or a desire to avoid controversy<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\u2013 Evidence<\/p>\n
\n
- Use of Christian sources is unacceptable, because they are biased<\/li>\n
- Jesus should have been mentioned by ancient historians and other contemporaries<\/li>\n
- Jesus is not mentioned by Josephus<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\n
- \u00a0 The Testimonium Flavianum<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 James the Brother of Jesus called Christ<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
\n
- Tacitus\u2019 mention of Jesus\u2026<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\n
- \u00a0 is based on hearsay and worthless<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 is an interpolation<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
\n
- Paul does not view Jesus as a historical figure, but as a purely celestial figure<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\n
- \u00a0 Born of a woman, born under the Law<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Descended from David according to the flesh<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 James, the Lord\u2019s brother<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Bled, died, was buried, etc.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
\n
- The Gospels are too late to be used as historical sources<\/li>\n
- The Gospels are turning a celestial figure into a historical one<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\u2013 Mainstream Historians on Jesus<\/p>\n
\n
- Secular historians do not accept the views of historical Jesus scholars, or do so uncritically<\/li>\n
- The case for a historical Jesus has never been made<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\n
- \u00a0 Should we expect archaeological evidence for a figure like Jesus?<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Arguments for the authenticity of material in texts IS the making of an argument for Jesus\u2019 historicity. Historical figures\u2019 existence is not a separate or separable question from their words and deeds.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
\n
- Historians who have addressed the issue specifically have done so inadequately<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\n
- \u00a0 Shirley Jackson Case<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Maurice Goguel<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Michael Grant<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Bart Ehrman<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Maurice Casey (list is by no means comprehensive)<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
\u2013 Other claims<\/p>\n
<\/strong><\/p>\n
Religious Studies<\/strong><\/p>\n
\u2013 Christianity was just another mystery religion<\/p>\n
\u2013 Jesus was just another dying and rising god<\/p>\n
\n
- Dying and rising gods<\/li>\n
- Claims of similarities to Jesus (December 25th, virginal conception, dying and rising)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\u2013 Ancient Judaism<\/p>\n
\n
- Pre-Christian Jews already expected a dying Messiah<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
\n
- \u00a0 Daniel<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Targum Jonathan<\/li>\n
- \u00a0 Rabbinic Literature<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
\n
- Philo calls the Logos \u201cJesus\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/blockquote>\n
What else do people think should be on here? How might the material usefully be organized differently?<\/p>\n
I hope to go back through my earlier posts on mythicism and either create a round-up that organizes the links thematically, or begin adapting those older posts to this new use. As I do so, I expect that other topics and subheadings will come to mind.<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Those who\u2019ve begun tinkering at the wiki I set up on Wikia already disagree on whether the best use of time and space is to address mythicist claims or to present the positive case for there having been a historical Jesus on its own terms. I don\u2019t see the two as mutually exclusive. But since […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":136,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[39,40,64],"tags":[4643,4652,4660,7845,7853,10872,13721],"class_list":["post-12176","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-historical-jesus","category-history","category-mythicism","tag-historians","tag-historical-jesus","tag-history","tag-myth","tag-mythicism","tag-scholarship","tag-wiki"],"yoast_head":"\n
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