{"id":1659,"date":"2010-02-09T09:07:00","date_gmt":"2010-02-09T09:07:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence\/"},"modified":"2018-01-06T06:45:50","modified_gmt":"2018-01-06T11:45:50","slug":"mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html","title":{"rendered":"Mythicism: Microexistence vs. Macroexistence?"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Although I know some have found the comparison between Jesus mythicism and creationism\u00a0offensive, it seems like the more time I spend thinking about this topic, the more similarities become apparent.<\/p>\n<p>It seems to me that the claim of at least some mythicists that mainstream historians fail to address the existence of Jesus directly, much less prove it more probable than the mythicist scenario, is akin to the creationist objection that scientists have proven \u201cmicroevolution\u201d but not \u201cmacroevolution.\u201d They object, in essence, not to this or that piece of data, but to the connections drawn between them.<\/p>\n<p>In the same way, mainstream historians seem to always come away from an examination of the early documents about Jesus persuaded that he did in fact do or have done to him, say or say something not entirely unlike, at least a few of the things claimed in those sources.<\/p>\n<p>Once again I wish to make the point I made in another recent post. Non-existent individuals do not say things or do things. If even one saying of Jesus, or action by him, or something done to him such as the crucifixion, is clearly more likely to\u00a0represent authentic historical information rather than something invented, then we have to posit a historical Jesus. It may or may not be that most of what was later claimed about him was invented. That isn\u2019t the issue \u2013 I don\u2019t know a mainstream historian or New Testament scholar who thinks Jesus said and did <em>everything<\/em> that the New Testament documents claim. The issue regarding mythicism is whether there <em>was<\/em> a Jesus at all, out of whom the later legends grew.<\/p>\n<p>To make the case for mythicism as the best explanation of the evidence, you have to have it be the best explanation for <em>all<\/em> the material we have. With the exception of some religious conservatives who have made up their minds in advance, <em>everyone<\/em> in the fields of history and New Testament accepts that <em>some<\/em>\u00a0of the material attributed to Jesus in the New Testament was invented. That isn\u2019t mythicism. Mythicism claims that it provides the best explanation for <em>all<\/em> the material, and if there were someone who had made that case, we would know about it. Mainstream scholars have written works that tackle every saying and event in the New Testament. I\u2019m pretty sure that if a mythicist had produced such a voluminous work, it would have come up in the discussion by now. But if there is such a thing, please do let me know. If not, then it is <em>obvious<\/em> that mythicism hasn\u2019t adequately made its case, because like inerrancy, it doesn\u2019t work\u00a0if it\u00a0is only true of part of the material. If there is one error, then the Bible is not inerrant. If there is one piece of historical data about a real Jesus, then mythicism is wrong.<\/p>\n<p>And so as New Testament scholars and other historians pay careful attention to specific details, we get accused in essence of proving \u201cmicroexistence.\u201d But\u00a0authentic material about Jesus leads naturally to an authentic Jesus. We may not know much about him. But I think it is at this point that we really get to the heart of what mythicism is. It seems to be an attempt to sidestep the hard work of sifting through the historical evidence for those nuggest of material that can be judged authentic with a high degree of certainty. And that is what distinguishes academic historical study from mythicism: an unwillingness to make an <em>a priori<\/em> judgment about a figure\u2019s existence rather than on the basis of a painstaking careful investigation of each piece of evidence.<\/p>\n<p>Let me sum up and try to be succinct. <u>Mythicism is a <em>claim<\/em> about all the available evidence, made by a group that has not (whether individually or collectively) provided a <em>treatment<\/em> of all the available evidence to support their claim.<\/u><\/p>\n<div class=\"blogger-post-footer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogger.googleusercontent.com\/tracker\/7622297540113836091-2897757424358470745?l=exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com\" alt=\"\" width=\"1\" height=\"1\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Although I know some have found the comparison between Jesus mythicism and creationism\u00a0offensive, it seems like the more time I spend thinking about this topic, the more similarities become apparent. It seems to me that the claim of at least some mythicists that mainstream historians fail to address the existence of Jesus directly, much less [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":136,"featured_media":39313,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[64],"tags":[686,3217,5677,7856],"class_list":["post-1659","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mythicism","tag-antievolutionism","tag-evolution-science","tag-jesus","tag-mythicists"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Mythicism: Microexistence vs. Macroexistence?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Although I know some have found the comparison between Jesus mythicism and creationism\u00a0offensive, it seems like the more time I spend thinking about this\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Mythicism: Microexistence vs. Macroexistence?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Although I know some have found the comparison between Jesus mythicism and creationism\u00a0offensive, it seems like the more time I spend thinking about this\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2010-02-09T09:07:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2018-01-06T11:45:50+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/719\/2016\/12\/Mythicism-like-Creationism-1.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"477\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"547\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"James F. McGrath\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@ReligionProf\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"James F. McGrath\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html\",\"name\":\"Mythicism: Microexistence vs. Macroexistence?\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2010-02-09T09:07:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2018-01-06T11:45:50+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf\"},\"description\":\"Although I know some have found the comparison between Jesus mythicism and creationism\u00a0offensive, it seems like the more time I spend thinking about this\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Mythicism: Microexistence vs. Macroexistence?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/\",\"name\":\"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath\",\"description\":\"The Blog of Dr. James F. McGrath, Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University, Indianapolis\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf\",\"name\":\"James F. McGrath\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"caption\":\"James F. McGrath\"},\"description\":\"Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. BD University of London, PhD Durham University. Author of John's Apologetic Christology, The Only True God, Theology and Science Fiction, and The Burial of Jesus, as well as (with Charles Haberl of Rutgers University) the two-volume Mandaean Book of John critical edition, translation, and commentary. Also author of numerous articles (and a few science fiction short stories) and the editor or co-editor of several volumes.\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3Ge8ul5\",\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/\",\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jamesfmcgrath\/\",\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jfmcgrat\/\",\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ReligionProf\",\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/religionprof\",\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/religionprof\",\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/James_F._McGrath\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/author\/james-f-mcgrath\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Mythicism: Microexistence vs. Macroexistence?","description":"Although I know some have found the comparison between Jesus mythicism and creationism\u00a0offensive, it seems like the more time I spend thinking about this","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Mythicism: Microexistence vs. Macroexistence?","og_description":"Although I know some have found the comparison between Jesus mythicism and creationism\u00a0offensive, it seems like the more time I spend thinking about this","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html","og_site_name":"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath","article_author":"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/","article_published_time":"2010-02-09T09:07:00+00:00","article_modified_time":"2018-01-06T11:45:50+00:00","og_image":[{"width":477,"height":547,"url":"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/719\/2016\/12\/Mythicism-like-Creationism-1.png","type":"image\/png"}],"author":"James F. McGrath","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@ReligionProf","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"James F. McGrath","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html","name":"Mythicism: Microexistence vs. Macroexistence?","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website"},"datePublished":"2010-02-09T09:07:00+00:00","dateModified":"2018-01-06T11:45:50+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf"},"description":"Although I know some have found the comparison between Jesus mythicism and creationism\u00a0offensive, it seems like the more time I spend thinking about this","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2010\/02\/mythicism-microexistence-vs-macroexistence.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Mythicism: Microexistence vs. Macroexistence?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/","name":"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath","description":"The Blog of Dr. James F. McGrath, Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University, Indianapolis","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf","name":"James F. McGrath","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","caption":"James F. McGrath"},"description":"Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. BD University of London, PhD Durham University. Author of John's Apologetic Christology, The Only True God, Theology and Science Fiction, and The Burial of Jesus, as well as (with Charles Haberl of Rutgers University) the two-volume Mandaean Book of John critical edition, translation, and commentary. Also author of numerous articles (and a few science fiction short stories) and the editor or co-editor of several volumes.","sameAs":["https:\/\/amzn.to\/3Ge8ul5","http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/","https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jamesfmcgrath\/","https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jfmcgrat\/","https:\/\/twitter.com\/ReligionProf","http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/religionprof","https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/religionprof","https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/James_F._McGrath"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/author\/james-f-mcgrath"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1659","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/136"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1659"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1659\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/39313"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1659"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1659"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1659"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}