{"id":22059,"date":"2014-03-05T10:42:47","date_gmt":"2014-03-05T15:42:47","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?p=22059"},"modified":"2014-03-05T10:42:47","modified_gmt":"2014-03-05T15:42:47","slug":"richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html","title":{"rendered":"Richard Carrier’s Decisive Argument Against Mythicism?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

A commenter named Stuart wrote<\/a> the following:<\/p>\n

Although mythicism has survived attacks from Ehrman and Casey its days may be numbered. A decisive argument against mythicism has been made by a scholar whose competence certainly can\u2019t be questioned. This scholar is Richard Carrier. In his essay \u201cThe Spiritual Body of Christ and the Legend of the Empty Tomb\u201d Carrier shows that the first Christians believed that the body of Jesus remained in the tomb and that Jesus was given a new body. This is Carrier\u2019s \u201ctwo body\u201d theory of the resurrection. Carrier makes a clear distinction between the physical, corruptible body that Jesus had on earth and the new spiritual body that Jesus was given. It is clear that this distinction could not apply if Jesus had only ever lived in a celestial realm. Carrier says:<\/p>\n

\u201cSo the earliest Christians would have believed that Christ had really been raised, and raised bodily, even as his earthly body continued to rot in the tomb.\u201d<\/p>\n

Referring to the ideas of Philo he says: \u201cAnd since heaven was celestial anyone who lived there had to be celestial too, leaving behind all earthly substance.\u201d<\/p>\n

Turning to Paul\u2019s idea of the resurrection he says: \u201cPaul goes out of his way to deny continuity, emphasizing instead how different the resurrected body will be.\u201d According to Carrier, \u201cPaul emphasizes that our resurrection will fundamentally resemble [Christ\u2019s]. So what Paul says about our resurrection body applies equally to Christ\u2019s.\u201d<\/p>\n

Carrier goes on to explain why the Corinthians had doubts about the resurrection: \u201cHowever, if the corpse of Jesus remained on earth, it is easy to see how some might come to believe that his resurrection was peculiar.\u201d<\/p>\n

I wonder what made Carrier change his mind about all of this.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

One could accuse Carrier of having become a Christian apologist, based on the above evidence.<\/p>\n

Think about it. Just when he formulates what is a cogent and potentially persuasive objection to a physical resurrection of Jesus, based on historical reasoning, he jettisons it and starts advocating instead a fringe theory that makes himself and those associated look like gullible kooks. Could it be that he has realized the truth of Christianity, and is now trying to distract from his earlier arguments and undermine the atheist cause?<\/p>\n

I am of course being completely tongue in cheek when I write the above. It is about as plausible as Carrier\u2019s application of the label \u201cChristian apologist\u201d onto me. Of course, if he means by that \u201cliberal Christian apologist, someone whose stance involves embracing the results of historical, scientific, and other scholarly inquiry\u201d then I am of course guilty as charged. And I would indeed encourage him to embrace the latter as well.<\/p>\n

But in the following I am being completely serious. Since Carrier now disagrees with the stance he once held, which is along the same lines as the views of people like Bart Ehrman and Maurice Casey, I would love to see him debunk his own earlier writings with the dismissiveness and insults that he typically offers in such cases. I mean, why should he spare an author that treatment, just because the author is himself?<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A commenter named Stuart wrote the following: Although mythicism has survived attacks from Ehrman and Casey its days may be numbered. A decisive argument against mythicism has been made by a scholar whose competence certainly can\u2019t be questioned. This scholar is Richard Carrier. In his essay \u201cThe Spiritual Body of Christ and the Legend of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":136,"featured_media":21590,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[42,64],"tags":[712,714,1846,10276,10359,10800],"class_list":["post-22059","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-humor","category-mythicism","tag-apologetics","tag-apologists","tag-christianity-religion","tag-resurrection","tag-richard-carrier","tag-satire"],"yoast_head":"\nRichard Carrier's Decisive Argument Against Mythicism?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"A commenter named Stuart wrote the following: Although mythicism has survived attacks from Ehrman and Casey its days may be numbered. A decisive argument\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Richard Carrier's Decisive Argument Against Mythicism?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"A commenter named Stuart wrote the following: Although mythicism has survived attacks from Ehrman and Casey its days may be numbered. A decisive argument\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2014-03-05T15:42:47+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"James F. McGrath\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@ReligionProf\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"James F. McGrath\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html\",\"name\":\"Richard Carrier's Decisive Argument Against Mythicism?\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2014-03-05T15:42:47+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2014-03-05T15:42:47+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf\"},\"description\":\"A commenter named Stuart wrote the following: Although mythicism has survived attacks from Ehrman and Casey its days may be numbered. A decisive argument\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Richard Carrier’s Decisive Argument Against Mythicism?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/\",\"name\":\"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath\",\"description\":\"The Blog of Dr. James F. McGrath, Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University, Indianapolis\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf\",\"name\":\"James F. McGrath\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"caption\":\"James F. McGrath\"},\"description\":\"Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. BD University of London, PhD Durham University. Author of John's Apologetic Christology, The Only True God, Theology and Science Fiction, and The Burial of Jesus, as well as (with Charles Haberl of Rutgers University) the two-volume Mandaean Book of John critical edition, translation, and commentary. Also author of numerous articles (and a few science fiction short stories) and the editor or co-editor of several volumes.\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3Ge8ul5\",\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/\",\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jamesfmcgrath\/\",\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jfmcgrat\/\",\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ReligionProf\",\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/religionprof\",\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/religionprof\",\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/James_F._McGrath\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/author\/james-f-mcgrath\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Richard Carrier's Decisive Argument Against Mythicism?","description":"A commenter named Stuart wrote the following: Although mythicism has survived attacks from Ehrman and Casey its days may be numbered. A decisive argument","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Richard Carrier's Decisive Argument Against Mythicism?","og_description":"A commenter named Stuart wrote the following: Although mythicism has survived attacks from Ehrman and Casey its days may be numbered. A decisive argument","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html","og_site_name":"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath","article_author":"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/","article_published_time":"2014-03-05T15:42:47+00:00","author":"James F. McGrath","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@ReligionProf","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"James F. McGrath","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html","name":"Richard Carrier's Decisive Argument Against Mythicism?","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website"},"datePublished":"2014-03-05T15:42:47+00:00","dateModified":"2014-03-05T15:42:47+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf"},"description":"A commenter named Stuart wrote the following: Although mythicism has survived attacks from Ehrman and Casey its days may be numbered. A decisive argument","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2014\/03\/richard-carriers-decisive-argument-against-mythicism.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Richard Carrier’s Decisive Argument Against Mythicism?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/","name":"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath","description":"The Blog of Dr. James F. McGrath, Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University, Indianapolis","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf","name":"James F. McGrath","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","caption":"James F. McGrath"},"description":"Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. BD University of London, PhD Durham University. Author of John's Apologetic Christology, The Only True God, Theology and Science Fiction, and The Burial of Jesus, as well as (with Charles Haberl of Rutgers University) the two-volume Mandaean Book of John critical edition, translation, and commentary. Also author of numerous articles (and a few science fiction short stories) and the editor or co-editor of several volumes.","sameAs":["https:\/\/amzn.to\/3Ge8ul5","http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/","https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jamesfmcgrath\/","https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jfmcgrat\/","https:\/\/twitter.com\/ReligionProf","http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/religionprof","https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/religionprof","https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/James_F._McGrath"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/author\/james-f-mcgrath"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/22059","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/136"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=22059"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/22059\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=22059"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=22059"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=22059"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}