{"id":30204,"date":"2015-05-13T08:54:57","date_gmt":"2015-05-13T12:54:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/exploringourmatrix\/?p=30204"},"modified":"2015-05-13T08:54:57","modified_gmt":"2015-05-13T12:54:57","slug":"self-defeating-religion","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html","title":{"rendered":"Self-Defeating Religion"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Hemant Mehta<\/a> drew attention to the fact that what some conservative religious people in the United States today want \u2013 namely to obliterate the separation between church and state \u2013 is arguably the most self-defeating course of action they could pursue. In Europe, countries\u00a0where Christianity is the national\u00a0religion have seen Christianity decline significantly. Baptists, in adopting their historic stance<\/a> that church and state should be separate<\/a>, thought that\u00a0state support for a religion ultimately does it more harm, as people become associated with it for cultural, political, and other reasons besides sincere religious devotion.<\/p>\n

It is interesting to reflect on how this relates to the\u00a0recent Pew study<\/a> suggesting that things are not going well anyway, for traditional Christian identities at least. The number who self-identify with\u00a0historic denominations and movements has declined, and the number of \u201cunaffiliated\u201d has gone up. That category is not primarily\u00a0agnostics and atheists, but people who say they are \u201cnothing in particular.\u201d<\/p>\n

An article by Sarah Posner for\u00a0Religion Dispatches<\/em><\/a> suggested that there is both a desire in many circles for the bringing of religion and politics together, and disillusionment with how that\u00a0has been done. Among five main\u00a0noteworthy points, she included the following:<\/p>\n

\n

1. The first report on Pew\u2019s data released today does not include its analysis of respondents\u2019 religious intensity or orthodoxy, nor of the respondents\u2019 political and social attitudes. That will come later this year in a separate, detailed report. Stay tuned!<\/p>\n

2. A different Pew survey out last year found a \u201cgrowing appetite<\/a>\u201d for mixing religion and politics, particularly among conservative religious respondents. As I\u00a0wrote<\/a>\u00a0at the time, the poll found \u201cthose affiliated with a religion, particularly evangelicals, Protestants, and Catholics, \u2018have become significantly more supportive of churches and other houses of worship speaking out about political issues and political leaders talking more often about religion.\u2019\u201d Granted, the rise of the nones is partly a result of disaffection with mixing religion and politics, indicating a possible mitigating effect. That will likely drive divergent trends of mixing religion and politics among Republicans and Democrats.<\/p>\n

3. Keep in mind that, politically speaking, evangelicals, and in particular white evangelicals, have been highly politically organized for decades. As the sociologist Lydia Bean\u00a0documents<\/a>\u00a0in her book,\u00a0The Politics of Evangelical Identity<\/em><\/a>, through churches and parachurch organizations, evangelicals\u2019 political views are shaped by a \u201cnarrative of Christian nationalism,\u201d a \u201c24\/7 narrative\u201d that \u201cliberals basically destroyed America and conservatives have to take it back.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Perhaps the message is that there is no sure-fire way to guarantee that religion in general, or a religion in particular, will thrive or decline. Alliance with political power, and separation, can ultimately lead to either, whether in the shorter or the longer term.<\/p>\n

Other Patheos bloggers<\/a> have also written on this subject. Here is an excerpt from a post by Erin Wathen<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

This ship is sinking, folks. We are bailing out water with tiny communion cups, but it is going down.<\/p>\n

And it isn\u2019t because technology has drawn us out of community, or because Millennials are hopelessly selfish (other people\u2019s theory, not mine), or because so many people have soccer practice on Sundays now and\u00a0the stupid Wal-Mart is open 24 hours a day<\/em>. No, we are an increasingly faithless nation because the culture, at large, is evolving. As a species, we are moving past the trivialities of moral code, in the interest of our own survival. In this age of globalization, people are increasingly aware of global suffering, inequity, and rapidly melting ice caps. If they look to religion at all, they look for real transformation\u2014 for a body of people who will speak up for justice, care for the aging planet, and embody life-giving love and compassion\u2026 and we, the People Religious, come up short again and again.<\/p>\n

Why? Mostly because we\u2019ve been too busy playing house, trying to keep our doors open, fussing over the bylaws and deciding who gets in. We have failed to evolve with the rest of our species.<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know that we can \u2018bring back\u2019 the post-exodus masses\u2026 But what we can do is hear them. We can acknowledge that we have used our resources, our time, our precious breath for all the wrong things. We have cast out where we should have drawn in. We have judged more than we\u2019ve connected. We have fretted over our own infrastructure and\u00a0who the hell is sleeping with whom<\/em>, while our neighbors were hungry, hurting, isolated.<\/p>\n

If healing of the Body is possible, it has to start with that acknowledgement. And a large measure of humility, as we recognize that \u2018we\u2019 are a growing minority, and no longer hold the authority to shape culture. The world is not\u00a0looking to us for answers. They are looking to see if we practice what we preach.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

What are your thoughts about the\u00a0latest Pew study?<\/p>\n

\"changing<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Hemant Mehta drew attention to the fact that what some conservative religious people in the United States today want \u2013 namely to obliterate the separation between church and state \u2013 is arguably the most self-defeating course of action they could pursue. In Europe, countries\u00a0where Christianity is the national\u00a0religion have seen Christianity decline significantly. Baptists, in […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":136,"featured_media":30205,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[127,139,75],"tags":[1880,2605,8197,9020,11082,11083,11841,12092,13086],"class_list":["post-30204","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atheism-religion","category-fundamentalism-religion","category-politics","tag-church","tag-denominations","tag-nones","tag-pew","tag-separation","tag-separation-of-church-and-state","tag-state","tag-survey","tag-unaffiliated"],"yoast_head":"\nSelf-Defeating Religion<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Hemant Mehta drew attention to the fact that what some conservative religious people in the United States today want - namely to obliterate the separation\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Self-Defeating Religion\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Hemant Mehta drew attention to the fact that what some conservative religious people in the United States today want - namely to obliterate the separation\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2015-05-13T12:54:57+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"James F. McGrath\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@ReligionProf\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"James F. McGrath\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html\",\"name\":\"Self-Defeating Religion\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2015-05-13T12:54:57+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2015-05-13T12:54:57+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf\"},\"description\":\"Hemant Mehta drew attention to the fact that what some conservative religious people in the United States today want - namely to obliterate the separation\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Self-Defeating Religion\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/\",\"name\":\"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath\",\"description\":\"The Blog of Dr. James F. McGrath, Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University, Indianapolis\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf\",\"name\":\"James F. McGrath\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"caption\":\"James F. McGrath\"},\"description\":\"Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. BD University of London, PhD Durham University. Author of John's Apologetic Christology, The Only True God, Theology and Science Fiction, and The Burial of Jesus, as well as (with Charles Haberl of Rutgers University) the two-volume Mandaean Book of John critical edition, translation, and commentary. Also author of numerous articles (and a few science fiction short stories) and the editor or co-editor of several volumes.\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3Ge8ul5\",\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/\",\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jamesfmcgrath\/\",\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jfmcgrat\/\",\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ReligionProf\",\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/religionprof\",\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/religionprof\",\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/James_F._McGrath\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/author\/james-f-mcgrath\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Self-Defeating Religion","description":"Hemant Mehta drew attention to the fact that what some conservative religious people in the United States today want - namely to obliterate the separation","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Self-Defeating Religion","og_description":"Hemant Mehta drew attention to the fact that what some conservative religious people in the United States today want - namely to obliterate the separation","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html","og_site_name":"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath","article_author":"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/","article_published_time":"2015-05-13T12:54:57+00:00","author":"James F. McGrath","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@ReligionProf","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"James F. McGrath","Est. reading time":"4 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html","name":"Self-Defeating Religion","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website"},"datePublished":"2015-05-13T12:54:57+00:00","dateModified":"2015-05-13T12:54:57+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf"},"description":"Hemant Mehta drew attention to the fact that what some conservative religious people in the United States today want - namely to obliterate the separation","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2015\/05\/self-defeating-religion.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Self-Defeating Religion"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/","name":"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath","description":"The Blog of Dr. James F. McGrath, Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University, Indianapolis","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf","name":"James F. McGrath","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","caption":"James F. McGrath"},"description":"Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. BD University of London, PhD Durham University. Author of John's Apologetic Christology, The Only True God, Theology and Science Fiction, and The Burial of Jesus, as well as (with Charles Haberl of Rutgers University) the two-volume Mandaean Book of John critical edition, translation, and commentary. Also author of numerous articles (and a few science fiction short stories) and the editor or co-editor of several volumes.","sameAs":["https:\/\/amzn.to\/3Ge8ul5","http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/","https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jamesfmcgrath\/","https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jfmcgrat\/","https:\/\/twitter.com\/ReligionProf","http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/religionprof","https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/religionprof","https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/James_F._McGrath"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/author\/james-f-mcgrath"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/30204","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/136"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=30204"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/30204\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=30204"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=30204"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=30204"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}