{"id":3337,"date":"2008-11-04T13:08:00","date_gmt":"2008-11-04T13:08:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2008\/11\/what-jesus-said-and-did-1-prayer-in-gethsemane\/"},"modified":"2008-11-04T13:08:00","modified_gmt":"2008-11-04T13:08:00","slug":"what-jesus-said-and-did-1-prayer-in-gethsemane","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2008\/11\/what-jesus-said-and-did-1-prayer-in-gethsemane.html","title":{"rendered":"What Jesus Said and Did: 1) Prayer in Gethsemane"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.picturesofjesus4you.com\/images\/jesus_praying_in_gethsemane_anderson_l.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"\" src=\"https:\/\/www.picturesofjesus4you.com\/images\/jesus_praying_in_gethsemane_anderson_l.jpg\" border=\"0\"><\/a> <\/p>\n<div>I\u2019ve been wanting for a while now to begin a series on the evidence for various things having been said and done by, to, or in connection with the historical figure of Jesus. Time constraints between now and the end of November will mean that any posts I offer between now and then will be on the brief side. It has been a challenge to decide where to begin. I\u2019ve chosen a <a href=\"http:\/\/www.bib-arch.org\/online-exclusives\/easter-04.asp\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">case<\/a> that is by no means absolutely clear cut, but which I hope nonetheless can serve as an example of an instance where the balance of probability is in favor of there being an authentic historical core.\n<p>In <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Mark%2014:35-36;&amp;version=31;\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Mark 14:35-36<\/a> we read: Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. \u201cAbba, Father,\u201d he said, \u201ceverything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I wonder how many modern readers actually register the significance of this from the perspective of later Christianity. By Paul\u2019s time, the church had already made a virtue out of a necessity, making sense of the otherwise unintelligible fact of the crucifixion by claiming that it was an essential act for the salvation of humankind. In the story in Mark, Jesus is depicted as praying for that not to happen.<\/p>\n<p>There is, on the one hand, reason to doubt the story based on the story itself, which claims that Jesus went a bit away from the disciples to pray, and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Mark%2014%20:37;&amp;version=31;\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">found them sleeping when he returned<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>On the other hand, Paul already seems to have associated the address of God as Father in Aramaic with Jesus\u2019 relationship to God as son. The <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/quicksearch\/?quicksearch=abba&amp;x=15&amp;y=7\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">only appearances of this Aramaic word in the New Testament<\/a> are in the earliest Gospel and in <a href=\"http:\/\/christiancadre.org\/member_contrib\/cp_abba.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Paul\u2019s letters<\/a>. And there is no reason Paul would have used the term in writing to non-Aramaic-speaking Christians other than that the term already had some significance for them, presumably in connection with Jesus, the object of their faith and devotion.<\/p>\n<p>On <a href=\"https:\/\/www.blogger.com\/comment.g?blogID=1905686568472747305&amp;postID=3239140475281630030\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">another blog<\/a>, it has been suggested that even the crucifixion story could have been invented by the earliest Christians, since they viewed it as salvific. I find that to reflect a failure to understand what was going on in the development of early Christianity. But even if we were to grant that point, wouldn\u2019t it provide a strong counterargument to the early Christians having invented the story in <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Mark%2014:35-36;&amp;version=31;\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Mark 14:35-36<\/a>?<\/p>\n<p>It is my hope, more than anything else, that this series will provide a jumping off point for discussion. So what do you think?<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"blogger-post-footer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1\" height=\"1\" src=\"https:\/\/blogger.googleusercontent.com\/tracker\/7622297540113836091-2460988155552730712?l=exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com\" alt=\"\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I\u2019ve been wanting for a while now to begin a series on the evidence for various things having been said and done by, to, or in connection with the historical figure of Jesus. Time constraints between now and the end of November will mean that any posts I offer between now and then will be [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":136,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3337","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>What Jesus Said and Did: 1) Prayer in Gethsemane<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"I&#039;ve been wanting for a while now to begin a series on the evidence for various things having been said and done by, to, or in connection with the\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2008\/11\/what-jesus-said-and-did-1-prayer-in-gethsemane.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"What Jesus Said and Did: 1) Prayer in Gethsemane\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I&#039;ve been wanting for a while now to begin a series on the evidence for various things having been said and done by, to, or in connection with the\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2008\/11\/what-jesus-said-and-did-1-prayer-in-gethsemane.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. 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