{"id":38539,"date":"2016-10-18T06:13:09","date_gmt":"2016-10-18T10:13:09","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?p=38539"},"modified":"2016-10-17T13:15:35","modified_gmt":"2016-10-17T17:15:35","slug":"was-god-good-before-creation","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2016\/10\/was-god-good-before-creation.html","title":{"rendered":"Was God Good Before Creation?"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Yesterday I discussed one attempted solution to the problem of evil that students wrestled with, taking J. L. <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ditext.com\/mackie\/evil.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Mackie\u2019s classic article, \u201cEvil and Omnipotence,\u201d<\/a> as their starting point, together with the Book of Job and an excerpt from <em><a href=\"http:\/\/amzn.to\/2dYCO6h\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Brothers Karamazov<\/a><\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Today I would like to focus in on another, the argument that good cannot exist without evil, since it is only by way of contrast that we perceive things to be good or evil, better or worse than one another. On this view, evil and good are not absolute existing things or characteristics, but terms of comparison.<\/p>\n<p>Here too, there is something to this. If\u00a0we always had the taste of freshly-baked chocolate chip cookies in our mouths, presumably actual freshly-baked chocolate chip cookies would simply seem tasteless. It is the absence of those delicious flavors during most of our experience that makes each bite from a really good cookie so delectable.<\/p>\n<p>But here\u2019s the question that struck me as I thought about this topic yet again. If God alone exists eternally, then prior to creation, presumably there was no good or evil.<\/p>\n<p>Is this a\u00a0logical\u00a0corollary of this view of good and evil, and if so, should it be acceptable to\u00a0theologians?<\/p>\n<p>Alternatively, is God not infinite, so that the not-God has also always existed? That viewpoint may be reflected in the Biblical creation account, with God taking that eternal chaos and imposing order upon it.<\/p>\n<p>Stephen Law recently offered the \u201cEvil God Challenge\u201d which explores the alternative scenario that an evil God created the world, and free will explains why sometimes\u00a0good happens in an evil universe.<\/p>\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"The &quot;Evil God Challenge&quot; by Stephen Law\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/WiufsmxiUiU?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<p>The truth is that the universe doesn\u2019t look like one optimized either for evil or for good, depending on how one understands those things. But if evil is the torment experienced by sentient beings, then the relative dearth of them in the observable cosmos suggests that evil is not the aim.<\/p>\n<p>Presumably the take-away is that it makes no sense to think that humans having a pleasant life is the central aim of the entire cosmos. But that\u00a0represents a challenge to our anthropocentrism, not to\u00a0the existence of God <em>per se<\/em>. If\u00a0it is possible to\u00a0question the competence of a Creator who made our universe supposedly aiming for perfection, it is even easier, I think, to question the competence of a Creator who was trying to maximize unhappiness and made our universe. But I suspect one\u2019s view on this depends on one\u2019s own life experience.<\/p>\n<p>Be that as it may, the main thing I should end with is that there is\u00a0another solution\u00a0\u2013\u00a0one older than the Bible\u00a0\u2013\u00a0namely,\u00a0that God is not all that exists, and never has been.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-38540\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/719\/2016\/10\/quote-before-creation-god-did-just-pure-mathematics-then-he-thought-it-would-be-a-pleasant-john-edensor-littlewood-105-27-47.jpg\" alt=\"quote-before-creation-god-did-just-pure-mathematics-then-he-thought-it-would-be-a-pleasant-john-edensor-littlewood-105-27-47\" width=\"850\" height=\"400\"><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Yesterday I discussed one attempted solution to the problem of evil that students wrestled with, taking J. L. Mackie\u2019s classic article, \u201cEvil and Omnipotence,\u201d as their starting point, together with the Book of Job and an excerpt from The Brothers Karamazov. Today I would like to focus in on another, the argument that good cannot [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":136,"featured_media":38540,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[100,101],"tags":[14342,2219,2269,3216,4005,4054,14341,13172],"class_list":["post-38539","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-theodicy","category-theology","tag-anthropocentrism","tag-cosmos","tag-creation","tag-evil","tag-god","tag-good","tag-steven-law","tag-universe"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Was God Good Before Creation?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Yesterday I discussed one attempted solution to the problem of evil that students wrestled with, taking J. L. 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