{"id":41181,"date":"2017-07-09T06:03:45","date_gmt":"2017-07-09T10:03:45","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?p=41181"},"modified":"2017-07-08T18:27:38","modified_gmt":"2017-07-08T22:27:38","slug":"many-jesuses","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2017\/07\/many-jesuses.html","title":{"rendered":"Many Jesuses?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

There isn\u2019t really debate about the plural of \u201cJesus.\u201d If it were Latin, then perhaps \u201cJesi\u201d would be appropriate. But as the Anglicized rendering of the Greek form of a Semitic name, it is better to go with \u201cJesuses.\u201d<\/p>\n

I have yet to\u00a0even begin watching the TV series American Gods<\/a>, but I gather that it has had multiple Jesuses too.<\/p>\n

Here, however, I want to talk about the widespread mythicist claim that somehow the various things that people have said about Jesus means that\u00a0we cannot talk meaningfully about a historical Jesus. Commenter Mark clarified things<\/a> so admirably that I asked permission to quote him in a post. Here is what he wrote<\/a>:<\/p>\n

[T]his is all based on what Kripke<\/a> calls the \u2018disguised description theory of names\u2019. There are not many Jesuses \u2018the Jesus who raised Lazarus and who also \u2026\u2019, \u2018the Jesus who was either killed by Pilate or \u2026 and \u2026\u2019 etc etc. This confuses the \/truth of a statement\/ with \/the reference of a name occurring in it\/. I cannot recommend reading \u201cNaming and Necessity\u201d highly enough; of the great works in the canon of the history of philosophy it is among the most readable.<\/p>\n

The fact is that \/either\/ the use of the name \u2018Jesus\u2019 that comes down to us by the copying of the letters of Paul and the gospels etc. refers to a particular human being \/or else\/ it doesn\u2019t.<\/p>\n

The question, as Kripke shows, is very simple. Paul\u2019s particular use of the name \u2018Jesus\u2019 (a common Aramaic name in the period) \/\/defers\/\/ to the use of his predecessors whom he had formerly \u2018persecuted\u2019. When he says he saw \u2018Christ\u2019 whom he also calls \u2018Jesus\u2019 in e.g. 1 Cor 15, he means that he \u2018saw\u2019 the one they were already talking about, inter alia under the name \u2018Jesus\u2019.<\/p>\n

To find the referent, then \u2013 if there is one \u2013 we now go to the usage of this popular 1st c. name for boys by \u2018those who came before\u2019 Paul \u2013 this is what the reference of Paul\u2019s usage depends on and inherits. (People in Paul\u2019s congregations also used the name \u2018Jesus\u2019; the reference in the sentences they formed by repeating this expression depends on or inherits the reference of Paul\u2019s uses \u2013 and perhaps on the uses of the other independent Jesus-messianists who came their way). The question is whether \/Paul\u2019s predecessors\u2019\/ use of \u2018Jesus\u2019 depends on and continues, in the familiar causal way, a particular use of the name \u2018Jesus\u2019 for a particular 1st c. Palestinian human being. Either it does or it doesn\u2019t. If the chain of repetition comes to a limit in a human being, then \u201cJesus\u201d refers to a human being, and it is true to say \u201cJesus really existed\u201d.<\/p>\n

Given a genuine proper name referring to a real individual, there is no limit to the nonsense people can go on to attach to it as predicates. No amount of false predication affects the reference of a genuine personal name, if it has any. I don\u2019t get to invent \u2018a Jesus\u2019 for each such predication \u2013 e.g.
\n\u201cJesus raised Lazarus from the dead\u201d and ask \u2018whether that Jesus exists\u2019. I just ask whether the sentence is true\u2026<\/p>\n

If the referential chain exists, all uses of the repeated name refer to the original bearer. It doesn\u2019t matter what people are saying \/with\/ the name through which they intend to replicate the chain. The point is developed with overwhelming force by Kripke. People can say wilder and wilder and more diverse and impossible things about Jesus \u2013\u00a0but they keep the same referential chain, saying \u2018Jesus\u2019 \/because\/ some predecessors said \u2018Jesus\u2019 \u2013 so they are along referring to the same 1st century individual whatever they say. You say \u201cOne group had this idea, other group had another idea\u201d \u2013 and this is about the predicates they apply and have \/\/no bearing\/\/ on the question of the referent of the name; it doesn\u2019t change what they are applying these predicates to. They can\u2019t change this, it is fixed by iron in the fact that even as they change doctrines they repeat the received expression \u2018Jesus\u2019 and entering into dispute with their immediate predecessors. Of course they are all massively wrong; but it\u2019s a first century Galilean they are massively wrong about.<\/p>\n

Our question is about 1st c Palestine; it is historical not anthropological.<\/p>\n

If there is an original John Frum, an American soldier say, then that\u2019s John Frum; sentences containing \u2018John Frum\u2019 are true just in case they are true of John Frum. The claim that he is identical with Manehevi, even if this is directly asserted, is in that case simply false, even if Manehavi exists. If \u2018John Frum\u2019 was introduced as a name for Manehevi, then things are different. The case is in fact of zero interest, as I said above. Frum is mirror and parody of Jesus; the reproduction of the cult depends on this internal relation to the Christianity they are rejecting.<\/p>\n

In proto-Christianity have to do with a Jewish messianic movement. The charismatic target of all such movements actually existed and is unique and unambiguous. It is the same if we extend the expand the notion to include e.g. corresponding Islamic phenomena. Thus Menachem Schneerson, Sabbatai Sevi, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad all of course existed. Similarly, Jesus existed. John Frum and General Ludd and Robin Hood are not names preserved for us by Jewish messianic movements.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>\"\"\u00a0\"American<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

There isn\u2019t really debate about the plural of \u201cJesus.\u201d If it were Latin, then perhaps \u201cJesi\u201d would be appropriate. But as the Anglicized rendering of the Greek form of a Semitic name, it is better to go with \u201cJesuses.\u201d I have yet to\u00a0even begin watching the TV series American Gods, but I gather that it […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":136,"featured_media":41182,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[39],"tags":[14817,5671,5677,5697,7856],"class_list":["post-41181","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-historical-jesus","tag-american-gods","tag-jesi","tag-jesus","tag-jesuses","tag-mythicists"],"yoast_head":"\nMany Jesuses?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"There isn't really debate about the plural of "Jesus." If it were Latin, then perhaps "Jesi" would be appropriate. 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