Wonka vs. Mythicists (plus the Historical Jesus, Unicorns and Atlantis)<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Joel Watts - sorry, Willy Wonka - makes an apt comparison on Joel's blog: Joel also links to my response to Carrier, and emphasizes in the process that,\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Wonka vs. Mythicists (plus the Historical Jesus, Unicorns and Atlantis)\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Joel Watts - sorry, Willy Wonka - makes an apt comparison on Joel's blog: Joel also links to my response to Carrier, and emphasizes in the process that,\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2012-03-23T03:32:07+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/unsettledchristianity.com\/wp-content\/upLoads\/2012\/03\/oh-you-dont-believe-in-the-historical-jesus-you-have-the-kenyan-birth-certificate-too-dont-you.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"James F. McGrath\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@ReligionProf\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"James F. McGrath\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"1 minute\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html\",\"name\":\"Wonka vs. Mythicists (plus the Historical Jesus, Unicorns and Atlantis)\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2012-03-23T03:32:07+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2012-03-23T03:32:07+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf\"},\"description\":\"Joel Watts - sorry, Willy Wonka - makes an apt comparison on Joel's blog: Joel also links to my response to Carrier, and emphasizes in the process that,\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Wonka vs. Mythicists (plus the Historical Jesus, Unicorns and Atlantis)\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/\",\"name\":\"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath\",\"description\":\"The Blog of Dr. James F. McGrath, Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University, Indianapolis\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf\",\"name\":\"James F. McGrath\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g\",\"caption\":\"James F. McGrath\"},\"description\":\"Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. BD University of London, PhD Durham University. Author of John's Apologetic Christology, The Only True God, Theology and Science Fiction, and The Burial of Jesus, as well as (with Charles Haberl of Rutgers University) the two-volume Mandaean Book of John critical edition, translation, and commentary. Also author of numerous articles (and a few science fiction short stories) and the editor or co-editor of several volumes.\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3Ge8ul5\",\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/\",\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jamesfmcgrath\/\",\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jfmcgrat\/\",\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ReligionProf\",\"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/religionprof\",\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/religionprof\",\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/James_F._McGrath\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/author\/james-f-mcgrath\"}]}<\/script>\n","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Wonka vs. Mythicists (plus the Historical Jesus, Unicorns and Atlantis)","description":"Joel Watts - sorry, Willy Wonka - makes an apt comparison on Joel's blog: Joel also links to my response to Carrier, and emphasizes in the process that,","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Wonka vs. Mythicists (plus the Historical Jesus, Unicorns and Atlantis)","og_description":"Joel Watts - sorry, Willy Wonka - makes an apt comparison on Joel's blog: Joel also links to my response to Carrier, and emphasizes in the process that,","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html","og_site_name":"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath","article_author":"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/","article_published_time":"2012-03-23T03:32:07+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/unsettledchristianity.com\/wp-content\/upLoads\/2012\/03\/oh-you-dont-believe-in-the-historical-jesus-you-have-the-kenyan-birth-certificate-too-dont-you.jpg"}],"author":"James F. McGrath","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@ReligionProf","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"James F. McGrath","Est. reading time":"1 minute"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html","name":"Wonka vs. Mythicists (plus the Historical Jesus, Unicorns and Atlantis)","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website"},"datePublished":"2012-03-23T03:32:07+00:00","dateModified":"2012-03-23T03:32:07+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf"},"description":"Joel Watts - sorry, Willy Wonka - makes an apt comparison on Joel's blog: Joel also links to my response to Carrier, and emphasizes in the process that,","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Wonka vs. Mythicists (plus the Historical Jesus, Unicorns and Atlantis)"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/","name":"Religion Prof: The Blog of James F. McGrath","description":"The Blog of Dr. James F. McGrath, Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University, Indianapolis","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/78342576667b872e3d259c153ce4c5bf","name":"James F. McGrath","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/88ca096942acd474313f7ef4227a49da?s=96&d=identicon&r=g","caption":"James F. McGrath"},"description":"Clarence L. Goodwin Chair in New Testament Language and Literature at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. BD University of London, PhD Durham University. Author of John's Apologetic Christology, The Only True God, Theology and Science Fiction, and The Burial of Jesus, as well as (with Charles Haberl of Rutgers University) the two-volume Mandaean Book of John critical edition, translation, and commentary. Also author of numerous articles (and a few science fiction short stories) and the editor or co-editor of several volumes.","sameAs":["https:\/\/amzn.to\/3Ge8ul5","http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/religionprof\/","https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jamesfmcgrath\/","https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jfmcgrat\/","https:\/\/twitter.com\/ReligionProf","http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/religionprof","https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/religionprof","https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/James_F._McGrath"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/author\/james-f-mcgrath"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6984","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/136"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6984"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6984\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6984"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6984"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6984"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}

{"id":6984,"date":"2012-03-22T23:32:07","date_gmt":"2012-03-23T03:32:07","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/?p=6984"},"modified":"2012-03-22T23:32:07","modified_gmt":"2012-03-23T03:32:07","slug":"wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/religionprof\/2012\/03\/wonka-vs-mythicists-plus-the-historical-jesus-unicorns-and-atlantis.html","title":{"rendered":"Wonka vs. Mythicists (plus the Historical Jesus, Unicorns and Atlantis)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

Joel Watts \u2013 sorry, Willy Wonka \u2013 makes an apt comparison on Joel\u2019s blog<\/a>:<\/p>\n

$\"\"$ <\/p>\n

Joel also links to my response to Carrier, and emphasizes in the process that, while matters such as whether Jesus was the Messiah are questions that depend on faith<\/em>, the question of whether there was an ancient human being around whom the movement later known as Christianity formed is not a matter of faith, but of historical evidence and deduction<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Mike Bird quotes Chris Keith in relation to the historical Jesus, unicorns, and Atlantis. It sounds like it should help the mythicists, but in fact it illustrates just how far behind the times mythicists are with respect to the discussion of history, memory, and scholarly methodologies<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Chuck Grantham pointed out<\/a> that Bart Ehrman\u2019s book, Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth<\/em>, is available for Kindle.<\/a> $\"\"$ <\/p>\n

The blog Irreducible Complexity expresses well what mythicists would need in order to be taken seriously \u2013 someone who does what plenty of mainstream scholars have done, namely challenge the consensus from the inside offering persuasive scholarly arguments. While Mark Goodacre has not persuaded everyone to abandon the Q hypothesis, he is a respected member of the academy because his work is serious and scholarly, even if not found decisive by many of his peers. Challenges to scholarly consensus are constant in the academy. The problem with mythicism is not that the academy doesn\u2019t allow challenges on this point. The problem is that mythicists are not pursuing scholarly careers, scholarly publication of their arguments, or anything that does more than try to don a thin veneer of the appearance of scholarship while lacking the substance. If mythicists want to be taken seriously, they need to get over their persecution complex and actually do scholarship<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"