{"id":1045,"date":"2011-12-03T14:18:20","date_gmt":"2011-12-03T14:18:20","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/?p=1045"},"modified":"2011-12-03T14:18:20","modified_gmt":"2011-12-03T14:18:20","slug":"some-weekend-miscellaneous-thoughts","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/12\/some-weekend-miscellaneous-thoughts\/","title":{"rendered":"Some weekend miscellaneous thoughts"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Yesterday I had a one-on-one lunch with sociologist Peter Berger.\u00a0 He invited me to lunch with him to discuss Calvinism. We had a very good discussion for about 90 minutes. I\u2019ve known of Berger\u2019s work in sociology of knowledge and secularization theory for many years and was delighted to meet him and talk with him. He feels as I do about Calvinism (at least five point Calvinism). He\u2019s Lutheran and, by his own admission, somewhat liberal theologically. I did my best to inform him about the social significance of the \u201cyoung, restless, Reformed\u201d movement among evangelicals\u2013something he was not aware of (at least not thoroughly familiar with). I had the opportunity to ask him something I\u2019ve long wondered about: Why give up the secularization thesis about modernity and its effects just because religion seems to be making a come back? My own view is that much of the religious resurgence is quite compatible with secularity in that it does not seem really to affect people\u2019s lives all that much.\u00a0 For example, evangelicals experience divorce just as often as do non-Christians. Is there a \u201csecular Christianity?\u201d (I\u2019m not talking here about Bonhoeffer\u2019s meaning of that.) I think so.\u00a0 Many churches that experience explosive growth seem not to inculcate the idea of costly grace (now I\u2019m talking Bonhoeffer) in their adherents. The members seem to live pretty much like their non-Christian neighbors. My question is, is the giving up of the secularization thesis an example of bean counting? Are sociologists simply counting frequency of church attendance, etc.? Perhaps and perhaps not.\u00a0 But as a theologian looking more deeply into issues of discipleship and belief, I\u2019m not all that impressed with the alleged resurgence of religion in America.<\/p>\n<p>This week a brouhaha has broken out over a Baptist church in Kentucky that banned interracial marriage.\u00a0 That is, the Free Will Baptist Church passed a rule that interracial couples could not join the church. The secular media are having a field day with this\u2013another opportunity to bash Baptists. an AP article published in the local newspaper (with the byline Dylan Lovan) attempts to explain Baptists and utterly fails.\u00a0 Just a little self-education via the internet could clear things up. First of all, Baptist churches are autonomous; Baptist denominations are not really denominations but conventions or conferences or associations. The most they can do is expel a congregation and that takes time. But the media seem to be blaming the National Association of Free Will Baptists, if not Baptists in general, for the racist attitude and action of that single rural congregation in Kentucky. The media people frequently display their ignorance about religion. This is another example. The article also dares to comment on the Free Will Baptists, suggesting they are a minority among Baptists. Here\u2019s the direct quote from the AP article: \u201cFree Will Baptists trace their history to the 18th century. They emphasized the Arminian doctrine of free will, free grace and free salvation, in contrast to most Baptists, who were Calvinists and believed Christ died only for those predestined to be saved.\u201d Well, at least the writer spelled \u201cArminian\u201d correctly! Why was this written in the past tense? That\u2019s one puzzling thing about it. But also, it fails to mention that the FIRST Baptists were Arminian or at least synergists. Thomas Helwys and John Smyth and their followers most definitely were not Calvinists. The \u201cparticular Baptists\u201d came later. I don\u2019t know that anyone really knows the statistics regarding what \u201cmost Baptists\u201d believed about predestination and free will at any point AFTER the mid-17th century when particular (Calvinist) Baptists came on the scene. Personally, I doubt there was ever a time when \u201cmost Baptists\u201d believed in the whole TULIP scheme.<\/p>\n<p>This past week I watched a really good movie\u2013Sarah\u2019s Key. It\u2019s available on DVD now. I recommend it highly to those who have a high tolerance for drama about suffering children and the holocaust. Once again I came away from watching it wondering how anyone can believe that God planned, foreordained and rendered certain the sufferings of the two children in that movie. Of course, it is only a movie; it\u2019s not even based on real events. However, events like it surely happened in Europe during the 1930s and 1940s\u2013many times over. It\u2019s a very sad movie, so I suggest keeping a box of tissues nearby as you watch it. But the acting is good, the plot is great, the emotional impact is powerful. And some things in it are historically true\u2013such as that most Jews in Paris were rounded up and kept for a long time in a soccer stadium without working facilities, edible food or medical care. They were taken from there to various concentration camps where most were killed. The French police cooperated and acted as agents of the SS and Gestapo in all this\u2013something the French government has expressed regret over.<\/p>\n<p>One line in the movie especially hit home to me. An American woman in Paris is conducting research into French participation in the holocaust. A young French woman who works with her says something very disparaging about her near ancestors who did these things or at least did not speak up for the Jews of Paris as they were being taken away. The American woman says \u201cWould you have acted differently?\u201d The young French woman is stunned into silence.<\/p>\n<p>This is the problem with making the holocaust unique. Some months ago I reported on a holocaust conference I attended where a young Israeli woman expert on the holocaust (she is somehow connected to Yad Vashem) condemned one speaker for using the word \u201cholocaust\u201d for other massacres in history\u2013including the massacre of the innocents in Bethlehem by Herod. She called him a \u201cholocaust denier.\u201d The problem with this habit is that, while it seems to bring special attention to the holocaust and its intention is to prevent another one, it actually undermines the prevention of another one. IF we say the holocaust is unique, then we are implying that it could never happen again.\u00a0 The people who did it were simply monsters, not normal human beings. While there\u2019s some truth in that, it can be taken too far and often is taken too far. Yes, of course, there were unique aspects to the holocaust, but to set it aside as completely unique so that anyone who compares it with other massacres and genocides in history is a \u201cholocaust denier\u201d could have the unintended consequence of setting it up to happen again by deluding people into thinking THEY are incapable of doing things like that.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Yesterday I had a one-on-one lunch with sociologist Peter Berger.\u00a0 He invited me to lunch with him to discuss Calvinism. We had a very good discussion for about 90 minutes. I\u2019ve known of Berger\u2019s work in sociology of knowledge and secularization theory for many years and was delighted to meet him and talk with him. 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We had a very good discussion for\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Some weekend miscellaneous thoughts\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Yesterday I had a one-on-one lunch with sociologist Peter Berger.\u00a0 He invited me to lunch with him to discuss Calvinism. We had a very good discussion for\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/12\/some-weekend-miscellaneous-thoughts\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Roger E. Olson\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2011-12-03T14:18:20+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Roger E. 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Olson is Emeritus Professor of Christian Theology at Baylor University where he held the Foy Valentine Chair in Christian Ethics and taught Christian Theology from 1999 to 2021. He is the author of over twenty book including The Story of Christian Theology and The Journey of Modern Theology (both published by InterVarsity Press).\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/author\/rogereolson\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Some weekend miscellaneous thoughts","description":"Yesterday I had a one-on-one lunch with sociologist Peter Berger.\u00a0 He invited me to lunch with him to discuss Calvinism. We had a very good discussion for","robots":{"index":"noindex","follow":"follow"},"og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Some weekend miscellaneous thoughts","og_description":"Yesterday I had a one-on-one lunch with sociologist Peter Berger.\u00a0 He invited me to lunch with him to discuss Calvinism. 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