{"id":1675,"date":"2013-01-31T13:57:55","date_gmt":"2013-01-31T13:57:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/?p=1675"},"modified":"2013-01-31T13:57:55","modified_gmt":"2013-01-31T13:57:55","slug":"could-anything-imaginable-cause-a-calvinist-to-cease-in-love-and-worship-of-god","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2013\/01\/could-anything-imaginable-cause-a-calvinist-to-cease-in-love-and-worship-of-god\/","title":{"rendered":"Could Anything Imaginable Cause a Calvinist to Cease in Love and Worship of God?"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Yesterday (January 30) one of my favorite Calvinist interlocutors posted this comment here:<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe real difficulty that I have with the Arminian doctrinal position on the question of the origin of evil, as expressed here by Dr. Olson and in his book \u201cAgainst Calvinism\u201d, is best illustrated by the story Dr. Olson relates in the book of a question posed by one of Dr. Olson\u2019s students at the end of a class Dr. Olson was teaching on Calvinism\u2019s doctrine of God\u2019s sovereignty. The question posed by the student was, \u201cIf it was revealed to you in a way you couldn\u2019t question or deny that the true God actually is as Calvinism says and rules as Calvinism affirms, would you still worship him?\u201d Without a moment\u2019s hesitation Dr. Olson responded that, \u201cNo, I would not because I could not. Such a God would be a moral monster.\u201d<br>\nI applaud Dr. Olson for his doctrinal consistency which immediately led him to realize that the response he gave was the only logical response for the Arminian. I suspect that many who affirm Arminianism would have to give some thought to the question before they responded \u2013 and, rightly so, because Dr. Olson\u2019s reply reveals an error that scripture speaks to in several places.<br>\nScripture teaches that when considering the question of evil and suffering there is an incorrect and a correct way to view God\u2019s morality\/justness\/fairness\/goodness. The incorrect way says that there is a rule or law of morality\/justness\/fairness\/goodness against which both ourselves and God are held accountable. According to this view, when we are confronted with the question of evil and suffering \u2013 or, with some incomprehensible circumstance \u2013 we seek to address it by appealing to the rule or law. This is what Dr. Olson has done, in my view, in his response to the student, although I am certain he doesn\u2019t see it that way. In so doing, he has placed the rule or law above God and made God subject to it. If it were revealed to Dr. Olson that the God described by Calvinism is truly the way God is \u2013 as incomprehensible as that circumstance seemingly would be to Dr. Olson\u2019s mind \u2013 then Dr. Olson would be compelled by the rule or law to cease his love and worship of God.<br>\nThe correct way says that God himself is the rule\/law\/standard. He alone is the judge of such matters. When we as finite created beings do not understand something, or when we struggle with seemingly incomprehensible earthly circumstances, we appeal directly to our Creator in prayer, humbly acknowledging our limitations in the face of God\u2019s incomprehensible goodness and his sovereignty in all things.<br>\nThis is the message of the book of Job. This is the message, though some will no doubt disagree with my interpretation of these well trod battleground scriptures between Calvinists and Arminians, of the potter\/clay analogy referenced by OT prophets Isaiah (64:8) and Jeremiah (18) and again by Paul in his letter to the Romans (9).<br>\nWe are not to question God because it is not given to us as created beings to understand God\u2019s ways and purposes. We are simply to love and to trust in him completely \u2013 independent of our circumstances, as incomprehensible as they may seem, or of what our minds can conceive that may or may not possibly be revealed to us at some future point about God.<br>\nThis is the essential consequence of Calvinism\u2019s doctrine of the sovereignty of God for the Christian: No circumstance could possibly exist that would cause the Christian who adheres to this doctrine to cease in his love and worship of God.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, by way of response: I agree that \u201cNo circumstance could possibly exist that would cause [this] Christian\u2026to cease in his love and worship of God.\u201d The final sentence in Mr. Steele\u2019s comment implies that I think it is \u201cpossible\u201d that it could be revealed to me in a way I could not deny that God truly is as Calvinists believe. I don\u2019t think that is possible, so I don\u2019t even worry about it. The question posed to me by the student was completely and exclusively hypothetical. It wasn\u2019t a question about a possible situation I can imagine ever facing. But Mr. Steele\u2019s comment seems to imply that he believes one cannot even invent a hypothetical situation that could cause one who believes his doctrine (Calvinism) to cease loving and worshiping God. Well, let\u2019s give it a try. I asked Mr. Steele to answer a similar hypothetical question to the one the student asked me: \u201cSuppose it were revealed to you in a way you couldn\u2019t doubt or question that Satan is God? Would you still worship him?\u201d Of course it\u2019s a purely hypothetical question. So was the student\u2019s question to me. That\u2019s why I had no qualms about answering it. It couldn\u2019t happen. So I am still waiting for Mr. Steele\u2019s answer to my question because his polemic against me and Arminianism implies that there is no hypothetical situation that could cause him to cease worshiping God. Really? I doubt it. Although purely hypothetical, a situation in which an unexpected and startling revelation comes demonstrating convincingly that Satan is God (that is, that the God of the Bible is really Satan in disguise) is imaginable. That is, the mind can imagine it\u2013however repulsive that might be. Without for a moment entertaining the possibility that it could ever happen in reality, one can still conceive of such an impossible hypothetical situation. That is how the student\u2019s question struck me. Now, I would very much like to hear from Mr. Steele what he would do if such an unexpected and even really impossible situation come about. Would he still worship \u201cGod\u201d (Satan)? I can\u2019t imagine it. \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Yesterday (January 30) one of my favorite Calvinist interlocutors posted this comment here: \u201cThe real difficulty that I have with the Arminian doctrinal position on the question of the origin of evil, as expressed here by Dr. Olson and in his book \u201cAgainst Calvinism\u201d, is best illustrated by the story Dr. Olson relates in the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":58,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1675","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Could Anything Imaginable Cause a Calvinist to Cease in Love and Worship of God?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Yesterday (January 30) one of my favorite Calvinist interlocutors posted this comment here: &quot;The real difficulty that I have with the Arminian doctrinal\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Could Anything Imaginable Cause a Calvinist to Cease in Love and Worship of God?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Yesterday (January 30) one of my favorite Calvinist interlocutors posted this comment here: &quot;The real difficulty that I have with the Arminian doctrinal\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2013\/01\/could-anything-imaginable-cause-a-calvinist-to-cease-in-love-and-worship-of-god\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Roger E. 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