{"id":3192,"date":"2016-05-06T08:08:36","date_gmt":"2016-05-06T13:08:36","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/?p=3192"},"modified":"2016-05-06T08:08:36","modified_gmt":"2016-05-06T13:08:36","slug":"tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/","title":{"rendered":"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour<\/p>\n<p>Again, I fearlessly (not) go where angels fear to tread\u2014out on a (possibly breaking) limb, onto thin ice, into a social-cultural minefield. But I think I may have some thoughts (or just musings) on the subject worth putting down on \u201cpaper\u201d and asking others to consider.<\/p>\n<p>According to news reports the North Carolina legislature has passed a law requiring persons to use the public bathroom\/restroom\/locker room\/changing room that corresponds with the sex on their birth certificate. Many people are assuming this law is intentionally discriminatory against transgender people.<\/p>\n<p>According to news reports Target has created a policy that it will allow transgender people to use the stores\u2019 restrooms that correspond with their gender identity regardless of the sex stated on their birth certificates.<\/p>\n<p>According to news reports both actions have resulted in loud cries of protest.<\/p>\n<p>Here are my musings on the subject.<\/p>\n<p>First of all, I wonder if the true motive of the North Carolina legislators was prejudice against transgender people and discrimination against them. I wonder if pro-LGBTQ people have stopped to consider that a motive <em>might<\/em> be to protect women and girls from men pretending to be transgendering. We have all heard of male perverts who secretly spy on, even video record, women\u2019s and girls\u2019 restrooms and locker-changing rooms. Without a law such as the legislators passed, what would be the basis for arresting a man pretending to be a woman and claiming to be transgendering entering and using a women\u2019s restroom, locker-changing room with no intent but voyeurism?<\/p>\n<p>As a man, I doubt very many, if any men would call for a woman to be arrested for entering a men\u2019s restroom\u2014whether she is transgendering or not. In fact, just the other day I was using a men\u2019s restroom in a mall when a mother entered with her toddler son to help him use the toilet in a stall. Why she did not take him into the women\u2019s restroom for that purpose, I don\u2019t know, but she didn\u2019t. No man in the restroom gave her anything but a bemused glance. This was not the first time this has happened. When I lived in Europe female janitors often entered the men\u2019s restrooms to clean\u2014even at very busy times when all the urinals were in use. Again, not long ago, I was using the men\u2019s locker-changing room at a gym when a girl entered looking for her father. Our (the men\u2019s) concern was only for her, not for ourselves.<\/p>\n<p>My point is that most men and boys will not protest to management or law enforcement if a woman becoming a man through the transgendering process (in process or completed) uses a men\u2019s restroom or locker-changing room. We men just don\u2019t feel threatened by that. And very few, if any women would ever enter such a place out of prurient intent (voyeurism).<\/p>\n<p>So that throws me back to consider the <em>possibility<\/em> that the <em>intent<\/em> of the North Carolina legislators was <em>not<\/em> discrimination against transgender people but protection of women and girls from men pretending to be transgender. And my question to people protesting the law is what they would suggest law enforcement do if called to arrest a man in a women\u2019s restroom\/locker-changing room who claims he is transgender. (Remember that many transgender people do not go \u201call the way\u201d to having their genitalia changed. Many, perhaps most, men transgendering to being a woman still have all their \u201cparts.\u201d)<\/p>\n<p>Personally, speaking only for myself, but suspecting I am typical in this regard, I do not care if a woman enters the men\u2019s restroom\/locker-changing room while I\u2019m using it\u2014whatever her intent may be. I don\u2019t feel threatened by that. Nor do most men. We might be puzzled, bemused, but we are not likely to sound the alarm and ask the manager of the facility to call security or the police. On the other hand, I suspect many women (and girls) would feel threatened by an adult male person entering their restroom <em>or especially locker-changing room<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Now to the problem I see with Target\u2019s stated policy. It picks up right where the previous musings left off.<\/p>\n<p>First, I wonder when a Target store has ever prevented a person from entering a restroom or forcibly removed someone from entering a restroom or called the police to arrest someone for using a restroom. I have shopped at Target stores very frequently. For the past thirty years one has been near my homes. Because I am used to the stores\u2019 layout I tend to go out of my way to find one when I\u2019m in a different city. Never have I observed or heard of a person being prevented from entering a Target restroom for any reason (other than it was out of order). Nor have I observed or heard of a person being ordered out of one by security or police. I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s never happened; I\u2019m just saying I\u2019ve never observed or heard of it happening.<\/p>\n<p>So why this new policy? Is there a problem? Have there been complaints in Target stores about transgender people using \u201cthe wrong restroom?\u201d If so, I seriously doubt those complaints have come from males. (I know I would not bother to complain about a transgender person using the men\u2019s restroom.) If so, I suspect those complaints have come from females\u2014girls or women feeling threatened by someone who appears to be a man using the women\u2019s restroom.<\/p>\n<p>The question Target\u2019s policy raises in my mind is this: Suppose a teenage girl complains to the store\u2019s manager that a man entered the women\u2019s restroom while she was there. Suppose the manager takes her seriously, which I hope he or she would, and confronts the \u201cman\u201d who defends himself by claiming to be transgender. (I personally know a person who was born male who claims to be a woman; he\/she appears ambiguous as to sex when dressed but has male \u201cparts\u201d and sometimes a \u201cfive o\u2019clock shadow.\u201d) What should the Target store manager do? If the Target corporate policy gives such a manager any guidance, it has not been reported by the media. But this is bound to happen sooner or later.<\/p>\n<p>My point in all this is this: It seems to me the current brouhaha over both the North Carolina law and Target\u2019s new policy ignores the issue I am raising here\u2014the realistic fear that voyeuristic men, driven solely by prurient interests, will claim to be transgender (only at certain times and in certain places) in order to use the women\u2019s (including girls\u2019) restrooms and locker-changing rooms. Also the realistic fear of many women and girls of people who look like and physically are still males, transgendering or not, using their facilities.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m sorry to be so crude, but it seems necessary to drive my point home: Imagine a women\u2019s locker-changing room with showers being used by a naked person with male body parts who is transgender. This person may appear in public to be a woman, but naked is obviously a male human being\u2014physiologically. (Remember, not all men-becoming-women through \u201cgender reassignment\u201d have their male parts removed.) Do you want your daughter or granddaughter being exposed to him\/her naked? This is the scenario many people envision when they object to transgender persons using the restroom or locker-changing room designated for \u201cwomen\u201d (including girls, of course). You might say \u201cI have no problem with that\u201d but what you really mean, I suspect, is \u201cif she is truly transgender.\u201d But what if he is not? What if he is only a voyeur or exhibitionist? How will you or the management of the facility know?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Note to potential commenters: Know that flaming comments will not be posted here. Either respond in a civil manner or don\u2019t respond. Flaming comments will simply be deleted. Comments that misrepresent what I have written will also be deleted. Also, mere assertions without explanation related to the essay will not be posted.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour Again, I fearlessly (not) go where angels fear to tread\u2014out on a (possibly breaking) limb, onto thin ice, into a social-cultural minefield. But I think I may have some thoughts (or just musings) on the subject worth putting down on \u201cpaper\u201d and asking others to consider. According to [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":58,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3192","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour Again, I fearlessly (not) go where angels fear to tread\u2014out on a (possibly breaking) limb, onto\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour Again, I fearlessly (not) go where angels fear to tread\u2014out on a (possibly breaking) limb, onto\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Roger E. Olson\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2016-05-06T13:08:36+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Roger E. Olson\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Roger E. Olson\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"7 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/\",\"name\":\"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2016-05-06T13:08:36+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2016-05-06T13:08:36+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/84d70594b349147e27843d59d5db8cca\"},\"description\":\"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour Again, I fearlessly (not) go where angels fear to tread\u2014out on a (possibly breaking) limb, onto\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/\",\"name\":\"Roger E. Olson\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/84d70594b349147e27843d59d5db8cca\",\"name\":\"Roger E. Olson\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/6fe30530b483e239a4ca15ef464a5902?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/6fe30530b483e239a4ca15ef464a5902?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Roger E. Olson\"},\"description\":\"Roger E. Olson is Emeritus Professor of Christian Theology at Baylor University where he held the Foy Valentine Chair in Christian Ethics and taught Christian Theology from 1999 to 2021. He is the author of over twenty book including The Story of Christian Theology and The Journey of Modern Theology (both published by InterVarsity Press).\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/author\/rogereolson\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour","description":"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour Again, I fearlessly (not) go where angels fear to tread\u2014out on a (possibly breaking) limb, onto","robots":{"index":"noindex","follow":"follow"},"og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour","og_description":"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour Again, I fearlessly (not) go where angels fear to tread\u2014out on a (possibly breaking) limb, onto","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/","og_site_name":"Roger E. Olson","article_published_time":"2016-05-06T13:08:36+00:00","author":"Roger E. Olson","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Roger E. Olson","Est. reading time":"7 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/","name":"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#website"},"datePublished":"2016-05-06T13:08:36+00:00","dateModified":"2016-05-06T13:08:36+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/84d70594b349147e27843d59d5db8cca"},"description":"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour Again, I fearlessly (not) go where angels fear to tread\u2014out on a (possibly breaking) limb, onto","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2016\/05\/tempest-surrounding-bathrooms-gender-controversy-du-jour\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Tempest surrounding Bathrooms: Gender Controversy du Jour"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/","name":"Roger E. Olson","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/84d70594b349147e27843d59d5db8cca","name":"Roger E. Olson","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/6fe30530b483e239a4ca15ef464a5902?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/6fe30530b483e239a4ca15ef464a5902?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Roger E. Olson"},"description":"Roger E. Olson is Emeritus Professor of Christian Theology at Baylor University where he held the Foy Valentine Chair in Christian Ethics and taught Christian Theology from 1999 to 2021. He is the author of over twenty book including The Story of Christian Theology and The Journey of Modern Theology (both published by InterVarsity Press).","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/author\/rogereolson\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3192","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/58"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3192"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3192\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3192"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3192"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3192"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}