{"id":512,"date":"2011-06-15T12:52:31","date_gmt":"2011-06-15T12:52:31","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/community\/rogereolson\/?p=512"},"modified":"2011-08-18T19:26:36","modified_gmt":"2011-08-18T19:26:36","slug":"continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/","title":{"rendered":"Continuing frustration with Calvinist misrepresenting Arminianism"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>It happens all the time.\u00a0 I move around in evangelical circles quite a bit and overhear conversations and receive comments about Arminianism.\u00a0 And I invite Calvinists to my classes.<\/p>\n<p>I am certainly not claiming that all Calvinists are guilty of this, but many, in my experience, do not seem to care about representing Arminianism fairly.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s a typical example.\u00a0 A friend and I drove quite a way to browse at a used theological bookstore.\u00a0 The owner is a passionate five point Calvinist who actually has TULIP tracts that he gives out.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s how the conversation went:<\/p>\n<p>Owner: \u201cOh, you were here once before.\u00a0 We talked about Arminianism because you were preparing to write your Arminianism book.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I: \u201cOh, yes, now I remember.\u00a0 That was a while back.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Owner: \u201cYes, you tried to convince me that Arminius was not an Arminian.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I: \u201cWell, no, I tried to convince you that Arminius was not a Pelagian or semi-Pelagian.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Owner: \u201cRight.\u00a0 Arminius was not a Pelagian.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Huh?\u00a0 Now perhaps he was just confused, but I doubt it.\u00a0 The way I interpreted his final comment was as saying that although Arminius might not have been a Pelagian, Arminianism is Pelagian or semi-Pelagian.\u00a0 (I know several Calvinists who try to drive a wedge between Arminius himself as Arminians and Arminianism.\u00a0 One well-known evangelical Calvinist actually calls Wesley a \u201cconfused Calvinist!\u201d)<\/p>\n<p>What I think is that many Calvinists are so stuck in thinking of Arminianism as Pelagian or semi-Pelagian that they simply can\u2019t revise their opinion no matter what evidence is shown or told to them.\u00a0 I have sent Arminian Theology: Myths and Realities to many evangelical Calvinists.\u00a0 Only two have bothered to respond.\u00a0 A couple others that I know of reviewed the book for journals or at their blogs.\u00a0 Their critiques were that I am simply redefining Arminianism.\u00a0 Again, huh?\u00a0 I quote Arminius and almost every influential Arminian theologian since him demonstrating conclusively that they all absolutely rejected Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism (with the exception of the liberal Remonstrants such as Philip Limborch\u2013that is, \u201cArminians of the head\u201d who moved away from Arminius and Wesley in many ways such that they can hardly be considered really Arminian).<\/p>\n<p>I have yet to read a book by or hear a lecture by or listen to conversation by a dyed-in-the-wool Calvinist who fairly represents Arminianism which means representing it as Arminians themselves represent it.\u00a0 I\u2019m not asking them to buy into it or support it, all I want is fair representation such as they want from non-Calvinists of Calvinism!\u00a0 I\u2019m not seeing or hearing that yet among Calvinists\u2013even ones I know have read my book.<\/p>\n<p>I go out of my way to represent Calvinism fairly.\u00a0 I require my students to read Calvin and<\/p>\n<div id=\"side-info-column\" class=\"inner-sidebar\">\n<div id=\"side-sortables\" class=\"meta-box-sortables ui-sortable\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>Edwards and, when I teach an elective that deals with God\u2019s sovereignty, I make sure the students read something by a Calvinist on that subject.\u00a0 And I don\u2019t let them get away with distorting the Calvinist position.\u00a0 The same when I teach an adult Sunday School class or speak to a church group or whatever\u2013I always first explain Calvinism as a Calvinist would explain it and only then say why I disagree.\u00a0 I never set up a straw man and then burn it.<\/p>\n<p>I wish someone would point me to an exception.\u00a0 Where is a dyed-in-the-wool Calvinist who fairly represents Arminianism before criticizing it?\u00a0 I haven\u2019t met or read or heard him or her.<\/p>\n<p>So what am I after?\u00a0 Clear explanation of Arminian belief in total depravity and prevenient grace and that Arminians\u2019 main concern is not free will but God\u2019s character and of Arminian affirmation of God\u2019s omnipotence and sovereignty over his sovereignty and Arminian affirmation of justification by grace alone through faith alone.<\/p>\n<p>So, if you know of a Calvinist author or speaker who has fairly represented Arminianism in his or her book or article or whatever, let us know who this stranger is.\u00a0 I\u2019d like tocongratulate him or her!<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>It happens all the time.\u00a0 I move around in evangelical circles quite a bit and overhear conversations and receive comments about Arminianism.\u00a0 And I invite Calvinists to my classes. I am certainly not claiming that all Calvinists are guilty of this, but many, in my experience, do not seem to care about representing Arminianism fairly. [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":58,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-512","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Continuing frustration with Calvinist misrepresenting Arminianism<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"It happens all the time.\u00a0 I move around in evangelical circles quite a bit and overhear conversations and receive comments about Arminianism.\u00a0 And I\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Continuing frustration with Calvinist misrepresenting Arminianism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"It happens all the time.\u00a0 I move around in evangelical circles quite a bit and overhear conversations and receive comments about Arminianism.\u00a0 And I\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Roger E. Olson\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2011-06-15T12:52:31+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2011-08-18T19:26:36+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Roger E. Olson\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Roger E. Olson\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/\",\"name\":\"Continuing frustration with Calvinist misrepresenting Arminianism\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2011-06-15T12:52:31+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2011-08-18T19:26:36+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/84d70594b349147e27843d59d5db8cca\"},\"description\":\"It happens all the time.\u00a0 I move around in evangelical circles quite a bit and overhear conversations and receive comments about Arminianism.\u00a0 And I\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Continuing frustration with Calvinist misrepresenting Arminianism\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/\",\"name\":\"Roger E. Olson\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/84d70594b349147e27843d59d5db8cca\",\"name\":\"Roger E. Olson\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/6fe30530b483e239a4ca15ef464a5902?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/6fe30530b483e239a4ca15ef464a5902?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Roger E. Olson\"},\"description\":\"Roger E. Olson is Emeritus Professor of Christian Theology at Baylor University where he held the Foy Valentine Chair in Christian Ethics and taught Christian Theology from 1999 to 2021. He is the author of over twenty book including The Story of Christian Theology and The Journey of Modern Theology (both published by InterVarsity Press).\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/author\/rogereolson\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Continuing frustration with Calvinist misrepresenting Arminianism","description":"It happens all the time.\u00a0 I move around in evangelical circles quite a bit and overhear conversations and receive comments about Arminianism.\u00a0 And I","robots":{"index":"noindex","follow":"follow"},"og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Continuing frustration with Calvinist misrepresenting Arminianism","og_description":"It happens all the time.\u00a0 I move around in evangelical circles quite a bit and overhear conversations and receive comments about Arminianism.\u00a0 And I","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/","og_site_name":"Roger E. Olson","article_published_time":"2011-06-15T12:52:31+00:00","article_modified_time":"2011-08-18T19:26:36+00:00","author":"Roger E. Olson","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Roger E. Olson","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/","name":"Continuing frustration with Calvinist misrepresenting Arminianism","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#website"},"datePublished":"2011-06-15T12:52:31+00:00","dateModified":"2011-08-18T19:26:36+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/84d70594b349147e27843d59d5db8cca"},"description":"It happens all the time.\u00a0 I move around in evangelical circles quite a bit and overhear conversations and receive comments about Arminianism.\u00a0 And I","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2011\/06\/continuing-frustration-with-calvinist-misrepresenting-arminianism\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Continuing frustration with Calvinist misrepresenting Arminianism"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/","name":"Roger E. Olson","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/84d70594b349147e27843d59d5db8cca","name":"Roger E. Olson","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/6fe30530b483e239a4ca15ef464a5902?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/6fe30530b483e239a4ca15ef464a5902?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Roger E. Olson"},"description":"Roger E. Olson is Emeritus Professor of Christian Theology at Baylor University where he held the Foy Valentine Chair in Christian Ethics and taught Christian Theology from 1999 to 2021. He is the author of over twenty book including The Story of Christian Theology and The Journey of Modern Theology (both published by InterVarsity Press).","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/author\/rogereolson\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/512","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/58"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=512"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/512\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=512"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=512"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=512"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}