{"id":70,"date":"2010-08-17T07:50:33","date_gmt":"2010-08-17T12:50:33","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.rogereolson.com\/?p=70"},"modified":"2011-08-18T19:32:17","modified_gmt":"2011-08-18T19:32:17","slug":"a-comment-about-gods-passing-over","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2010\/08\/a-comment-about-gods-passing-over\/","title":{"rendered":"A comment about God&#39;s &quot;passing over&quot;&#8230;"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Only occasionally will I take the time to respond in\u00a0 a post to a specific respondant\u2019s challenge, question or critique.\u00a0 Normally I won\u2019t be able to as the purpose of this blog is to share my theological musings and let others discuss them as they wish.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>However, a recent poster here claimed that an Arminian should not object to the Calvinist idea of God unconditionally passing over many people whom he could save.\u00a0 The \u201cpassing over,\u201d of course, refers to what is known as \u201creprobation\u201d\u2013a concept debated even among Reformed theologians.\u00a0 It is what Calvin himself God\u2019s God\u2019s \u201chorrible decree.\u201d\u00a0 (Some Calvinists claim the original Latin term is better translated \u201cawesome,\u201d but that would hardly fit the context in which Calvinis admitting this decree of reprobation is offensive to human minds.)<\/p>\n<p>My point in objecting to the doctrine of reprobation is that it determines many people to spend eternity in hell when God could save them from hell because salvation (in the Calvinist scheme) is always absolutely unconditional.\u00a0 (To be technically correct, election to salvation is unconditional, but to me that amounts to the same thing as salvation being unconditional.\u00a0 Let\u2019s not get into a debate about this.\u00a0 Yes, in Calvinism actual salvation itself is conditional, but God provides all the conditions.\u00a0 Election TO salvation is unconditional and it predetermines that the elect person\u2019s conditions for salvation will be met by God himself\u2013for example in regenerating the person before they exercise faith.)<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m surprised that anyone fails to see the difference between God \u201cpassing over\u201d people for eternal salvation (when he could save them) and God \u201cpassing over\u201d certain groups or individuals for service.\u00a0 Even though the Bible does not always tell us the conditions, Arminians assume that God saw some potential for conditions being met when he chose a person like Abraham (e.g., an implicit faith in the God whose identity he did not yet know) and passed over his relatives or tribal cohorts.<\/p>\n<p>But the main point is these are entirely different \u201cpassings over.\u201d\u00a0 The Calvinist soteriology says God passes over people causing them to go to hell for eternal suffering when he could save them.\u00a0 Arminians object to that as making God morally ambiguous if not morally monstrous.\u00a0 We do not object to God choosing certain people and groups for service and passing over others.\u00a0 This does not call into question God\u2019s goodness as does the doctrine of reprobation.<\/p>\n<p>Classical Arminians do not object to God\u2019s sovereignty; it is a thoroughly biblical doctrine which Arminius upheld.\u00a0 We object to God\u2019s sovereignty being taken to the extreme of God predestining individuals to hell\u2013even if that is (weakly) explained as their deserving it because he could predestine them to salvation as that predestination is unconditional.<\/p>\n<p>This doctrine of double predestination, of course, raises a question a satisfying answer to which I have never heard: on what grounds or for what reason does God choose one person for salvation and pass over another person when, in Calvinism, that choice is absolutely unconditional?\u00a0 It portrays God as arbitrary.\u00a0 Between \u201cconditional\u201d and \u201cunconditional\u201d there is no middle ground.\u00a0 Appeal to mystery simply won\u2019t work here because there\u2019s no conceivable reason why God would choose one person and reject another person once you have said election is absolutely unconditional.\u00a0 It simply has to be arbitrary and some Calvinists have admitted it (e.g., Jonathan Edwards).\u00a0 Why won\u2019t most contemporary Calvinists admit it?\u00a0 Yet, R. C. Sproul and most I have read reject arbitrariness and appeal to mystery.\u00a0 They simply say that God has his reasons but has not chosen to reveal them to us.\u00a0 That won\u2019t work.\u00a0 There can\u2019t BE any reason once all conditions have been rejected.\u00a0 It has to be \u201ceenie, meenie, miney, mo.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But I recognize and admit that few Calvinists believe that.\u00a0 So I am charging them with inconsistency at this point and asking that IF they are going to accuse Arminianism of inconsistency they admit it in their own belief system.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Only occasionally will I take the time to respond in\u00a0 a post to a specific respondant\u2019s challenge, question or critique.\u00a0 Normally I won\u2019t be able to as the purpose of this blog is to share my theological musings and let others discuss them as they wish.\u00a0 However, a recent poster here claimed that an Arminian [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":58,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-70","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>A comment about God&#039;s &quot;passing over&quot;...<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Only occasionally will I take the time to respond in\u00a0 a post to a specific respondant&#039;s challenge, question or critique.\u00a0 Normally I won&#039;t be able to as\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"A comment about God&#039;s &quot;passing over&quot;...\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Only occasionally will I take the time to respond in\u00a0 a post to a specific respondant&#039;s challenge, question or critique.\u00a0 Normally I won&#039;t be able to as\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/rogereolson\/2010\/08\/a-comment-about-gods-passing-over\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Roger E. 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