{"id":10497,"date":"2013-12-03T08:09:14","date_gmt":"2013-12-03T13:09:14","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/?p=10497"},"modified":"2014-12-27T10:06:57","modified_gmt":"2014-12-27T15:06:57","slug":"i-want-women-ministers-now","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2013\/12\/i-want-women-ministers-now.html","title":{"rendered":"I Want Women Ministers Now!"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Progressive blogger Tony Jones who is also teaches at Protestant Fuller Theological Seminary has a sort of Wittenburg Door moment on his blog about women in ministry. His self righteously angry <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/tonyjones\/2013\/11\/22\/its-time-for-a-schism-regarding-women-in-the-church\/\" target=\"_blank\" class=\" decorated-link\">blog post<\/a> is full of bold print yelling and petty foot stomping.<\/p>\n<p>Part of his manifesto for change goes like this:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I don\u2019t take this lightly. I very much take\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/bible.oremus.org\/?ql=132987396\" target=\"_blank\" class=\" decorated-link\" rel=\"nofollow\">Jesus\u2019 prayer for unity<\/a>\u00a0in the Fourth Gospel seriously. Our eschatological hope is that the church will be\u00a0<em>one<\/em>, and that we will all be united in belief, practice, and love.<\/p>\n<p>But sometimes we need to separate. We need to say hard words to those who are not living the way that Jesus laid out for us. We need to divorce.<\/p>\n<p><strong>The time has come for a schism regarding the issue of women in the church. Those of us who know that women should be accorded full participation in every aspect of church life need to visibly and forcefully separate ourselves from those who do not. Their subjugation of women is anti-Christian, and it should be tolerated no longer.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That means:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>If you attend a church that does not let women preach or hold positions of ecclesial authority, you need to leave that church.<\/li>\n<li>If you work for a ministry that does not affirm women in ecclesial leadership, you need to leave that ministry.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>And so forth. And so on. We\u2019ve heard it all before. What interested me most were the comments. One reader said, \u201cWhat\u2019s the big deal, if he wants a church with women ministers there are lots of them\u2013just go join one and stop the hissy fit already.\u201d Another one acutely observed \u201cIt\u2019s the Leftist way. They can\u2019t sustain churches on their own (just look at the mainline Protestant denominations which have embraced \u201cProgressivism\u201d and have subsequently had huge declines in membership), so they have to keep consuming other churches just to propagate their views.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This last comment I find most perceptive. The progressives are never content doing their own thing. They always have to continue invading other peoples turf to spread their revolution. \u00a0They will not be content until the whole world is reformed according to their opinions. That they engage in this iconoclasm and ecclesiastical and cultural smash and grab with their self righteousness and promethean arrogance is maddening. They have to force \u201cequality\u201d down everyone\u2019s throat\u2013even those who are quite happy as they are.<\/p>\n<p>Is it such a big deal that a schismatic calls for schism? The Protestants have been doing this for the last 500 years. It\u2019s part of their genetic code. There are already tens of thousands of Protestant groups. What\u2019s a few more?<\/p>\n<p>In the meantime, I\u2019ll remain Catholic. The reason I converted to the Catholic faith was not so much that the Church of England ordained women, but that she proved herself to be a Protestant schism in doing so. I listened to the debates on both sides of the question. The fact is, those in favor of women\u2019s ordination had good arguments. They seemed to be nice, sincere Christian people. The same was true of those opposed to women\u2019s ordination. That\u2019s why there was such an almighty fight over the matter for goodness sake! The realization that both sides had good arguments and both sides were nice prayerful Christian folk is what made me look again at the Catholic Church.<\/p>\n<p>Here was a church that claimed an authority that was at once universal and local, historical and up to date, intelligent and yet mystical, global and yet local, Scriptural and yet critical. Furthermore, the mouthpiece and foundation for that authority was one man who claimed to be the actual successor of Peter\u2013the man Christ himself put in charge. I decided it wasn\u2019t up to me to make such a decision, nor was it up to the General Synod of the Church of England. So I took the Lord\u2019s prayer for unity seriously and did what I could do to bring about church unity: I became a Catholic.<\/p>\n<p>What Evangelicals need to realize is that feminism and the homosexualist agenda are linked. If you read Tony Jones\u2019 post closely he mentions the same sex issue. On that issue his language is the usual passive aggressive bovine manure we get from progressives:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Other issues that vex the church have not risen to the level of schism. Gay rights, for example, is an issue being worked through diligently and faithfully by many churches and denominations. They deserve time and grace as they study the Bible, listen to their people, and test the Spirit.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The code here is: we are going to use talk, talk, talk to convince people that they are wrong. We are going to infiltrate their Bible studies, their seminaries and their parishes. We are going to take over their publishing houses, newspapers and pressure groups to push the same sex agenda. \u00a0What we do first is to \u201callow time and grace as they study the bible, listen to their people and test the Spirit.\u201d Then once they are totally confused, fighting bitterly over the issue and blaming one another we will step in and demand action, demand equality and demand schism.<\/p>\n<p>People should realize once and for all that progressives are passive aggressive bullies of the first order. They will never be appeased. They will never be satisfied. Give in to them on one issue and they will be back the next day with their next agenda item. They live for conflict, division, discord and strife. That\u2019s the way they\u2019re wired. They see the whole world in terms of the great conflict\u2013the glorious revolution in which they will bring about their brave new world.<\/p>\n<p>The only intellectual quote I can think of to end this rant comes from the great moral theologian and cultural commentator Indiana Jones\u2026<\/p>\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Nazis,I hate these guys.\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/5sp3dIyNA2A?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<p>Go <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2012\/03\/why-women-can-be-protestant-ministers.html\" target=\"_blank\" class=\" decorated-link\">here<\/a> to learn why Catholics don\u2019t mind Protestant churches having women ministers.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Progressive blogger Tony Jones who is also teaches at Protestant Fuller Theological Seminary has a sort of Wittenburg Door moment on his blog about women in ministry. His self righteously angry blog post is full of bold print yelling and petty foot stomping. Part of his manifesto for change goes like this: I don\u2019t take [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":557,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-10497","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>I Want Women Ministers Now!<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Progressive blogger Tony Jones who is also teaches at Protestant Fuller Theological Seminary has a sort of Wittenburg Door moment on his blog about women\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2013\/12\/i-want-women-ministers-now.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"I Want Women Ministers Now!\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Progressive blogger Tony Jones who is also teaches at Protestant Fuller Theological Seminary has a sort of Wittenburg Door moment on his blog about women\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2013\/12\/i-want-women-ministers-now.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Fr. 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