{"id":1746,"date":"2009-08-08T06:54:00","date_gmt":"2009-08-08T06:54:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism\/"},"modified":"2009-08-08T06:54:00","modified_gmt":"2009-08-08T06:54:00","slug":"anglicans-and-schism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html","title":{"rendered":"Anglicans and Schism"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/div>\n
If you are bored by the continuing posts on the Anglican schism, please change the channel. However, an interesting correspondence developed in the combox. I noted that \u2018schism\u2019 is defined in the catechism (para.2089) as \u2018refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the church subject to him.\u201d<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
Someone (I presume an Anglo Catholic) responded with this statement from the Traditional Anglican Communion bishops:<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n

\u201cWe accept the ministry of the Bishop of Rome, the successor of Peter, which is a ministry of teaching and discerning the faith and a \u2018perpetual and visible principle and foundation of unity\u2019 and understand this ministry is essential to the Church founded by Jesus Christ.\u201d
<\/p>\n


<\/span><\/div>\n
The implication was that the TAC (and other Anglicans who would agree with this statement are therefore not in schism) Let\u2019s stop for a moment and consider this. First of all, this statement, admirable as it is, is a construction of the TAC, not of the Catholic Church. They are telling us what they believe about the Pope. That\u2019s all well and good, but it should not be assumed that this is the fullness of Catholic belief about the Pope, nor should it be mistaken for \u2018submission to the Roman Pontiff.\u2019<\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
What does the statement actually say? It says \u2018we accept the ministry of the Bishop of Rome, the successor of Peter.\u2019 Fine, but with Anglicans you always have to come back and ask, \u201cBut what does this actually mean?\u201d Notice that they \u2018accept the ministry of the Bishop of Rome\u2019 and say that he has a teaching ministry and a ministry of discerning the faith.\u2019 I\u2019m afraid this falls rather short of the doctrine of infallibility doesn\u2019t it? Neither does the statement show that the TAC are submitting to the infallible authority of the Roman Pontiff, or even that they want to. They simply \u2018accept his ministry\u2019.\u00a0In other words, the whole thing is pretty guarded and is nothing like the personal and total submission which is required when one becomes a Catholic.\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
I\u2019m sorry to be the crazy uncle at this ecumenical party, but Catholics and Anglicans need to be very clear about the Anglican ethos. Anglicans are, by nature, geniuses at compromise. Their church is founded on the Elizabethan Settlement which basically says, \u201cEveryone can believe pretty much what they like as long as nobody rocks the boat.\u201d The way this has been lived out is that everyone says what they think the other side wants to hear in order to make everyone happy. The TAC are doing the same Anglican thing in their discussions with the Catholic Church.<\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Don\u2019t get me wrong. I would be delighted as can be if Rome came up with some creative way to welcome our Anglican brothers and sisters in some sort of corporate scheme. I wish more Anglo Catholics would join the Catholic Church. We do need them and our church is poorer without them. However, we should also ask some pretty tough questions. We should understand the Anglican\u2019s amazing ability to say one thing and mean another, and ask them the toughest and most obvious question of all: \u201cIf you want to be Catholic why not join your local RCIA?\u201d<\/span><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

If you are bored by the continuing posts on the Anglican schism, please change the channel. However, an interesting correspondence developed in the combox. I noted that \u2018schism\u2019 is defined in the catechism (para.2089) as \u2018refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the church subject to him.\u201d Someone […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":557,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1746","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nAnglicans and Schism<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"If you are bored by the continuing posts on the Anglican schism, please change the channel. However, an interesting correspondence developed in the\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Anglicans and Schism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"If you are bored by the continuing posts on the Anglican schism, please change the channel. However, an interesting correspondence developed in the\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Fr. Dwight Longenecker\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-08-08T06:54:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Fr. Dwight Longenecker\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Fr. Dwight Longenecker\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html\",\"name\":\"Anglicans and Schism\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2009-08-08T06:54:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2009-08-08T06:54:00+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#\/schema\/person\/9a47bc6ba9c0a8c532dc90230d7ad3ad\"},\"description\":\"If you are bored by the continuing posts on the Anglican schism, please change the channel. However, an interesting correspondence developed in the\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Anglicans and Schism\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/\",\"name\":\"Fr. Dwight Longenecker\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#\/schema\/person\/9a47bc6ba9c0a8c532dc90230d7ad3ad\",\"name\":\"Fr. Dwight Longenecker\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/8dbbfbf5b6d096630322e90bce3f0cec?s=96&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/8dbbfbf5b6d096630322e90bce3f0cec?s=96&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Fr. Dwight Longenecker\"},\"sameAs\":[\"http:\/\/dwightlongenecker.com\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/author\/frdwight\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Anglicans and Schism","description":"If you are bored by the continuing posts on the Anglican schism, please change the channel. However, an interesting correspondence developed in the","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Anglicans and Schism","og_description":"If you are bored by the continuing posts on the Anglican schism, please change the channel. However, an interesting correspondence developed in the","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html","og_site_name":"Fr. Dwight Longenecker","article_published_time":"2009-08-08T06:54:00+00:00","author":"Fr. Dwight Longenecker","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Fr. Dwight Longenecker","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html","name":"Anglicans and Schism","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-08-08T06:54:00+00:00","dateModified":"2009-08-08T06:54:00+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#\/schema\/person\/9a47bc6ba9c0a8c532dc90230d7ad3ad"},"description":"If you are bored by the continuing posts on the Anglican schism, please change the channel. However, an interesting correspondence developed in the","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/2009\/08\/anglicans-and-schism.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Anglicans and Schism"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/","name":"Fr. Dwight Longenecker","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#\/schema\/person\/9a47bc6ba9c0a8c532dc90230d7ad3ad","name":"Fr. Dwight Longenecker","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/8dbbfbf5b6d096630322e90bce3f0cec?s=96&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/8dbbfbf5b6d096630322e90bce3f0cec?s=96&r=g","caption":"Fr. Dwight Longenecker"},"sameAs":["http:\/\/dwightlongenecker.com"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/author\/frdwight"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1746","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/557"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1746"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1746\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1746"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1746"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/standingonmyhead\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1746"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}