{"id":5077,"date":"2015-11-02T15:53:48","date_gmt":"2015-11-02T22:53:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/takeandread\/?p=5077"},"modified":"2015-11-02T16:42:23","modified_gmt":"2015-11-02T23:42:23","slug":"the-vulnerable-pastor-a-qa-with-mandy-smith","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/takeandread\/2015\/11\/the-vulnerable-pastor-a-qa-with-mandy-smith\/","title":{"rendered":"The Vulnerable Pastor: A Q&A with Mandy Smith"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"BC_MandySmith_bio\"<\/a>\u201cWhen so many are disillusioned by a manipulative or dogmatic church, how refreshing will it be to find the church lead by those who know how to listen and don\u2019t need to control? When women lead in these ways, it not only encourages women, it also frees men to lead in new, whole ways. I\u2019ve watched it and it\u2019s beautiful.\u201d \u2014 Mandy Smith, author, The Vulnerable Pastor<\/em><\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

This month at the Patheos Book Club, we\u2019re talking about the new book\u00a0The Vulnerable Pastor<\/a><\/em>\u00a0by Mandy Smith. We asked Pastor Smith\u00a0about the inspiration for her book, what \u201cvulnerable leadership\u201d looks and feels like, and what it\u2019s like to be the only female lead pastor in the North American Christian Convention.<\/p>\n

What led you to write The Vulnerable Pastor<\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n

In the book I tell the story of attending a large conference for Christian leaders where I collided with leadership ideals that looked nothing like me. That triggered a 2-3 year wrestling process to figure out how to bring together my theology, my own story, and leadership models. That wrestling included a lot of journaling, part of which I shared at an Epic Fail pastor\u2019s event and which then became an article (published in Leadership Journal<\/em> in 2014). The response to those showed me I\u2019m not alone\u2014we\u2019re all asking the same questions. I met so many pastors who feel inadequate and so many potential Christian leaders who aren\u2019t stepping into their call because of un-scriptural ideas of leadership. I realized maybe all the wrestling I\u2019d done and all the freedom I\u2019d found wasn\u2019t only for my own sake and sensed it was time to share it in a book.<\/p>\n

You are the one and only woman pastor in your conference. Do you think women are more naturally inclined to be vulnerable leaders and thus seen as weaker and not as effective as male leaders? How have you struggled not only with being a woman in a man\u2019s world, but also embracing a counter-cultural style of leadership?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"BC_TheVulnerablePastor_1\"<\/a>There are other female pastors in the movement but I\u2019m the only female lead<\/em> pastor, as far as I know. But I don\u2019t think that will be the case for long. I do think that, generally, women are more comfortable being vulnerable\u2014partly just because of biology\u2014and so that can shape the way women lead. But I also think that women feel pressure to set aside those natural leanings to conform to expectations of leadership. There are some traditional leadership styles that look like strength which I think actually come from weakness, as leaders struggle to maintain the appearance of control. And there are things that look weak in leadership\u2014being collaborative, asking questions, expressing feelings\u2014which are actually true strength. So the hope is that \u201cstrength\u201d and \u201cweakness\u201d can be redefined.<\/p>\n

I am still very conscious that I don\u2019t fit the norm in various ways and I would be lying if I said I never feel self-conscious. But the freedom has come, not from trying to figure out where I fit in the culture\u2019s messed-up models but by seeking God. And it\u2019s uncomfortable to find him pointing to the example of Christ\u2014who wants to pour themselves out? And yet, at the same time, it\u2019s what the Church has always done. I used to think women needed to lead for the sake of fairness but I now believe that the Church needs our humble, organic leadership style for the sake of the mission. When so many are disillusioned by a manipulative or dogmatic church, how refreshing will it be to find the church lead by those who know how to listen and don\u2019t need to control? I believe that when women lead in these ways, it not only encourages women, it also frees men to lead in new, whole ways. I\u2019ve watched it and it\u2019s beautiful.<\/p>\n

You believe that being a vulnerable leader is actually more faithful to the gospel and our lives as Christians. Say more about that.<\/strong><\/p>\n

If, when we say \u201cvulnerable\u201d we don\u2019t only mean feeling<\/em> vulnerable but truly being<\/em> vulnerable then we\u2019re talking about the human condition\u2014our finite state. All our efforts to be invulnerable are often the very ways that keep us from knowing our need for God. When we feel uncertain, our power, privilege, wealth and technology promise to fill the void. But, when all our efforts to control life have failed and humans finally acknowledge their vulnerability\u2014stop trying fill their own needs, stop trying to be God\u2014then they will remember again how to need God, not only to get through life but to fill their deepest spiritual longing. And the connections to the Gospel there are pretty clear. It\u2019s amazing how we can grow up in church, know all the right doctrines, serve and tithe and follow the rules and yet still not really remember how to just tell God, \u201cI need you!\u201d But receiving his Good News kind of depends on it.<\/p>\n

What does a leader look like if they\u2019re not the typical powerful, has-everything-together leader?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tearful and joyful and comfortable in their own, human skin. Prayerfully and painfully aware of their need for God\u2014personally and to fulfill this impossible call. They\u2019ve stopped trying to be the one people follow and instead they\u2019re comfortable being an example of how it looks to follow God. So our example is no longer our own, perfect selves but our faithfulness. It means we\u2019re more comfortable asking questions, and sharing our failures. We\u2019re more willing to invite people into the process with us and instead of feeling pressure to say, \u201cHere\u2019s the five year plan!\u201d we say \u201cLet\u2019s listen for God together and who knows what he\u2019ll do!\u201d<\/p>\n

Why do we put so much pressure on our leaders, pastors or otherwise, to always have the easy answers, feel God\u2019s presence, and have political power?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Honestly, I think that we don\u2019t really want to be asked to engage in a process that\u2019s messy. We want relief from pain, three simple steps, leaders who can just fill in the gaps so we no longer have to watch carefully for God or learn to follow Him. But this puts unrealistic expectations on leaders and forgets that leadership in the church is not the same as running a business. It overlooks the fact that we\u2019re following a God who likes to be mysterious and reveal himself one step at a time.<\/p>\n

What opportunities do an emphasis on vulnerability in leadership provide for the church and other parachurch organizations?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Ironically, this approach is empowering. When we know we\u2019re jars of clay, we feel the need to welcome the power of God\u2019s presence. It makes us more collaborative, more creative, more engaged, less afraid of difference or failure. And when we engage with the world around us, it\u2019s refreshing for folks to encounter Christians who, instead of offering arguments or easy answers, can say, \u201cI\u2019m still figuring this out but this God has changed my life!\u201d When we\u2019ve faced our own failings and limitations, we can look people in the eye, in their pain and say, \u201cI don\u2019t have all the answers but I\u2019m learning to be comfortable in the mess. Can I be with you?\u201d What a blessing to our witness!<\/p>\n

Are there limits to our transparency as leaders? In other words, how vulnerable can we be as leaders? \u00a0Is it ever important to not<\/em> be vulnerable in certain situations?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

There is certainly healthy and unhealthy transparency. It helps to ask: Am I choosing to share or not share for their sake or mine? Over-sharing or under-sharing often comes down to selfish motivation\u2014drawing attention to ourselves or protecting ourselves. If we ask what others need to see or hear from us, we\u2019ll get a sense of what\u2019s right. I\u2019ve found my tendency is not to overshare but under-share and my biggest discomfort comes from being called to let people in behind the scenes when I\u2019d rather keep my tidy exterior. In the end, we\u2019re never going to figure it out by a formula and we have to risk making mistakes. But it\u2019s worth the risk, for all our sakes.<\/p>\n

How are other pastors responding to your book so far? What\u2019s your greatest hope for this book?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve loved hearing people saying it\u2019s bringing joy back to their ministries. I confess I can\u2019t get enough of the look of hope I\u2019m seeing in people\u2019s eyes. My prayer is that the freedom God has shown me will find its way to many others. I believe that, when God\u2019s people turn to him and cry out for help, revival will come. And I pray my book can be a tiny part of helping people turn to him in new ways.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u201cWhen so many are disillusioned by a manipulative or dogmatic church, how refreshing will it be to find the church lead by those who know how to listen and don\u2019t need to control? When women lead in these ways, it not only encourages women, it also frees men to lead in new, whole ways. 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