{"id":472,"date":"2011-07-05T19:12:00","date_gmt":"2011-07-05T19:12:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html"},"modified":"2011-07-05T19:12:00","modified_gmt":"2011-07-05T19:12:00","slug":"rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html","title":{"rendered":"Rabbi Lior’s Arrest Is The Price Of Entangling Religion & State"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

For those of you who haven\u2019t been following the latest religious follies in Israel, I should probably update you about the arrest of Rabbi Dov Lior.<\/p>\n

Lior is the chief rabbi of the Hebron-adjacent settlement known as Kiryat Arba.\u00a0 It is one of the most ideologically hard line settlements, full of the most intransigent nationalistically religious opponents of a two-state solution.\u00a0 Here\u2019s the gist of what happened from Ynet<\/a>:<\/p>\n

An arrest warrant was issued against Rabbi Lior a few months ago for alleged incitement over statements published in his book \u201cThe King\u2019s Torah,\u201d in which he legitimized the killing of non-Jews in war time.<\/p>\n

Lior also took part in a protest where he criticized the Justice Ministry and State Prosecution over their order to remove his books from stores. \u201cIt is inconceivable that in the State of Israel some clerk from the justice Ministry gets to dictate what rabbis say,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n

\u201cI assume that it isn\u2019t Israel\u2019s policy to silence rabbis and so we call on the prime minister the man responsible for the system as a whole to give an unequivocal order to put a stop to this stupid persecution,\u201d he added.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

First of all, a small correction.\u00a0 Lior did not write the book.\u00a0 He wrote a letter commending the book that was published in the book itself.\u00a0 This is a common Orthodox publishing ritual.<\/p>\n

This whole incident requires some understanding of Israeli governance.\u00a0 On one hand, Israel has laws against incitement that limit freedom of speech in ways that Americans cannot understand.\u00a0 Other democracies also have such restrictions on expression.\u00a0 In some nations, for example, it\u2019s illegal to deny the Holocaust.\u00a0 Israel has no concept of separating religion from the interests of the state.\u00a0 And by religion I mean Orthodox Judaism.<\/p>\n

So along comes Lior, a state-paid official (that\u2019s what a chief rabbi is) and makes the claim that he\u2019s being denied his freedom of speech.\u00a0 Do you see the problem here?\u00a0 Ideally any citizen, even a reactionary like Lior, should be able to hold and express odious beliefs.\u00a0 On the other hand, he works for the state.\u00a0 So even without reference to anti-incitement restrictions on speech, he has self-selected to keep his mouth shut.<\/p>\n

Herein lies an illustration of the brilliance of the U.S. founders.\u00a0 They accorded maximum freedom of expression for every idea and absolutely no government entanglement with any belief system. Those are big cogs in American democracy.<\/p>\n

Lior and his followers don\u2019t really understand democracy and what they do know, they despise.\u00a0 Here\u2019s what he had to say about it (my translation from \u201cYisrael HaYom<\/a>\u201d):<\/p>\n

\u201cThe idolatry of our generation is democracy.\u00a0 Once it was Baal and the Ashteras, today it\u2019s democracy.\u00a0 Instead of it being a type of governance, it\u2019s become a value.\u00a0 That\u2019s fine for people who live lives of abandon because they want no restraints on themselves.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

In fairness, he\u2019s not really experiencing the true value of a secular democratic system, not that he\u2019d appreciate that more.\u00a0 Democracy is not merely a matter of majority rule.\u00a0 It must also feature fair courts, freedom of speech, protections for minorities (and minority opinions) and no coercion in matters of conscience.\u00a0 A true separation of religion and state is also desirable, but there are successful democracies without that.<\/p>\n

Have the authorities done the correct thing by arresting him?\u00a0 The American civil libertarian in me says absolutely not.\u00a0 My more realistic side says that if you\u2019re willing to dance with whoever you consider to be the devil (and take a salary from him) you better follow his rules.\u00a0 If Lior wants that nice government subsidized rabbi\u2019s salary, he shouldn\u2019t cry foul when they tell him what he may or may not write. \u00a0Maybe these Orthodox Jews should start looking at the enormous downside of being the privileged religion.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

For those of you who haven\u2019t been following the latest religious follies in Israel, I should probably update you about the arrest of Rabbi Dov Lior. Lior is the chief rabbi of the Hebron-adjacent settlement known as Kiryat Arba.\u00a0 It is one of the most ideologically hard line settlements, full of the most intransigent nationalistically […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2281,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[10,20,21,31],"class_list":["post-472","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-blogentries","tag-church-and-state","tag-israel","tag-israeli-palestinian-conflict","tag-orthodox-judaism"],"yoast_head":"\nRabbi Lior's Arrest Is The Price Of Entangling Religion & State<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"For those of you who haven\u2019t been following the latest religious follies in Israel, I should probably update you about the arrest of Rabbi Dov Lior. Lior\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Rabbi Lior's Arrest Is The Price Of Entangling Religion & State\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"For those of you who haven\u2019t been following the latest religious follies in Israel, I should probably update you about the arrest of Rabbi Dov Lior. Lior\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Atheist Rabbi\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2011-07-05T19:12:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Jeffrey L. Falick\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Jeffrey L. Falick\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html\",\"name\":\"Rabbi Lior's Arrest Is The Price Of Entangling Religion & State\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2011-07-05T19:12:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2011-07-05T19:12:00+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#\/schema\/person\/fc95554b64c99ed45146c32bf5cd2372\"},\"description\":\"For those of you who haven\u2019t been following the latest religious follies in Israel, I should probably update you about the arrest of Rabbi Dov Lior. Lior\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Rabbi Lior’s Arrest Is The Price Of Entangling Religion & State\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/\",\"name\":\"The Atheist Rabbi\",\"description\":\"The blog of Jeffrey L. Falick, Secular Humanistic Rabbi.\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#\/schema\/person\/fc95554b64c99ed45146c32bf5cd2372\",\"name\":\"Jeffrey L. Falick\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f4f93646f1bdd3c145883cb358ed21b6?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f4f93646f1bdd3c145883cb358ed21b6?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Jeffrey L. Falick\"},\"description\":\"Jeffrey L. Falick is the Secular Humanistic Rabbi of The Birmingham Temple Congregation for Humanistic Judaism in Michigan. He is also certified as a Senior Humanist Celebrant by the American Humanist Association and is president and founder of Humanists of Southeast Michigan.\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/author\/jfalick\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Rabbi Lior's Arrest Is The Price Of Entangling Religion & State","description":"For those of you who haven\u2019t been following the latest religious follies in Israel, I should probably update you about the arrest of Rabbi Dov Lior. Lior","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Rabbi Lior's Arrest Is The Price Of Entangling Religion & State","og_description":"For those of you who haven\u2019t been following the latest religious follies in Israel, I should probably update you about the arrest of Rabbi Dov Lior. Lior","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html","og_site_name":"The Atheist Rabbi","article_published_time":"2011-07-05T19:12:00+00:00","author":"Jeffrey L. Falick","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Jeffrey L. Falick","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html","name":"Rabbi Lior's Arrest Is The Price Of Entangling Religion & State","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#website"},"datePublished":"2011-07-05T19:12:00+00:00","dateModified":"2011-07-05T19:12:00+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#\/schema\/person\/fc95554b64c99ed45146c32bf5cd2372"},"description":"For those of you who haven\u2019t been following the latest religious follies in Israel, I should probably update you about the arrest of Rabbi Dov Lior. Lior","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/07\/rabbi-liors-arrest-is-the-price-of-entangling-religion-state.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Rabbi Lior’s Arrest Is The Price Of Entangling Religion & State"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/","name":"The Atheist Rabbi","description":"The blog of Jeffrey L. Falick, Secular Humanistic Rabbi.","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#\/schema\/person\/fc95554b64c99ed45146c32bf5cd2372","name":"Jeffrey L. Falick","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f4f93646f1bdd3c145883cb358ed21b6?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f4f93646f1bdd3c145883cb358ed21b6?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Jeffrey L. Falick"},"description":"Jeffrey L. Falick is the Secular Humanistic Rabbi of The Birmingham Temple Congregation for Humanistic Judaism in Michigan. He is also certified as a Senior Humanist Celebrant by the American Humanist Association and is president and founder of Humanists of Southeast Michigan.","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/author\/jfalick"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/472","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2281"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=472"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/472\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=472"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=472"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=472"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}