{"id":491,"date":"2011-04-15T15:30:00","date_gmt":"2011-04-15T15:30:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/04\/the-rabbinical-dialogue-exchange-3.html"},"modified":"2011-04-15T15:30:00","modified_gmt":"2011-04-15T15:30:00","slug":"the-rabbinical-dialogue-exchange-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/04\/the-rabbinical-dialogue-exchange-3.html","title":{"rendered":"The Rabbinical Dialogue, Exchange #3"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>If you\u2019re following the rabbinical dialogue between Rabbi Fred Klein and me then you\u2019ve read his excellent second letter.\u00a0 It was quite challenging.\u00a0 I\u2019ll leave it to the readers to judge whether I\u2019ve been up to the challenge.<\/p>\n<p>Once again I want to thank Rabbi Klein for his participation.\u00a0 I believe in the importance of family and community.\u00a0 My identity is bound up with being a member of the Jewish family and community.\u00a0 Reasoned dialogues are crucial to the health and well-being of our world wide Jewish community.<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>Exchange #3, From Rabbi Falick to Rabbi Klein<\/p>\n<p>Dear Fred,<\/p>\n<p>Thank you for another challenging letter.\u00a0 In my previous response, I spent some time discussing the implications on the Holocaust for Jewish theism.\u00a0 You mention other Jewish tragedies and how they were handled over the course of time.\u00a0 I certainly understand that it takes time to absorb such catastrophes (and we Jews have had more than our share) into our sacred narrative.\u00a0 My main point, however, was that all previous integrations of these events were reliable in one key aspect.\u00a0 Each was ultimately ascribed to the will of God.\u00a0 God was a player on the stage of history.\u00a0 It is my opinion that attempts to do so in the modern age will never be successful.<\/p>\n<p>You challenged me with the question, \u201cCould there ever be a compelling theology?\u201d\u00a0 My answer is no.\u00a0 There does not exist any compelling theology for one who rejects the supernatural.\u00a0 As to the question of how to memorialize the victims, I cannot accede to designating them <i>k\u2019doshim<\/i>, for what should be obvious reasons.\u00a0 I do agree with you that it is, of course, more meaningful to mourn than philosophize.\u00a0 But this is ground that you covered very well from both of our perspectives and perhaps we should move one.<\/p>\n<p>As we do, let me preface it with an observation that your approach, which makes room for science, is clearly preferable to the cartoon version of religion that is predominant today.\u00a0 In our early discussions I assured you that I would not ask you to defend those approaches.\u00a0 No one who has read your thoughtful discourse could expect you to do so.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, you have quite impressively anticipated some of my arguments against belief.\u00a0 You write about Maimonides\u2019 take on the Shema and its instructions to love God:<\/p>\n<p>For you this might seem absurd, but not for a religious believer.\u00a0 Maimonides begins this book and ends the book with Ahavat Hashem, loving God.\u00a0\u00a0 This is the emotion that the Rav felt when he felt the need to write this work.\u00a0 He could no sooner deny his love for God than he could for his own wife or child.\u00a0 Without living a life of deep connection to God, his life would be incomplete.\u00a0 He desired connection and transcendence.<\/p>\n<p>However, maybe you might challenge \u2014 yes, I understand this.\u00a0 However, his children and wife are real.\u00a0 God is not.\u00a0\u00a0 To this I would answer God has no referent.\u00a0 You take one hundred people and each will have a different view of God.\u00a0 So what does love of God mean?<\/p>\n<p>As I understand it, your answer is that the world needs poetry.\u00a0 Agreed.\u00a0 I just don\u2019t understand why it must be poetry about God.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, it is not through poetry that God is primarily manifest in the real world.\u00a0 If it were just a matter of loving and feeling transcendence, there would be no need for the religious minutiae of the pious.\u00a0 Much of this so-called \u201claw\u201d encapsulates anachronistic views of race, gender and sexuality that have real world, not poetic, consequences.\u00a0 I say to the religious:\u00a0 Go write all of the poetry that you want.\u00a0 Love your mysterious God with all of your heart and soul.\u00a0 But stop imposing the desires and demands of your subjective, un-provable being upon the rest of us.\u00a0 If poetry were sufficient for the religious personality, we would not experience religious terrorism.\u00a0 We would not witness the horrific treatment of those who \u201cviolate\u201d God\u2019s \u201claws.\u201d\u00a0 Israelis could marry anyone whom they love without bringing proof of religiously acceptable parenthood.\u00a0 Gays could wed in the United States and elsewhere.\u00a0 Women would be driving in Saudi Arabia.<\/p>\n<p>An argument about the loneliness of faith is not quite so persuasive when contrasted with the thunderous cacophony of religious absolutism that currently dominates our world.\u00a0 This provides me with a segue to address your questions to me.<\/p>\n<p>You asked about communism, fascism and similar ideologies that are not necessarily religious.\u00a0 Non-believers are asked frequently about the abuses of non-theistic societies.\u00a0 I have already tipped my hand about my answer.\u00a0 The problem facing our world is not theism, per se, but theistic absolutism.\u00a0 This is not only because it is posited on the supernatural.\u00a0 After all, the consequences of supernaturalism alone are not necessarily harmful.\u00a0 People believe all kinds of silly things.\u00a0 That\u2019s why most newspapers have horoscopes.<\/p>\n<p>No, it is because theistic absolutism is a variety of dogmatic absolutism.\u00a0 And this is what poses the greatest challenge to our moral evolution.\u00a0 Dogmatic absolutism can come in many forms, some of them non-theistic.\u00a0 It includes fascism and atheistic communism.\u00a0 It can even appear in the guise of pseudo-science.<\/p>\n<p>Eugenics, with its doctrines derived from the pseudo-scientific concepts of \u201csocial Darwinism,\u201d is a good example of this.\u00a0 Or take the Soviets who were willing to believe all kinds of pseudo-scientific nonsense if it bolstered their ideology.\u00a0 Indeed, this is where the term Lysenkoism has its origins. The post-Enlightenment west has cycled quickly through a number of these non-supernaturally based dogmas.\u00a0 Fortunately, they tend to fall apart and become discredited relatively quickly.\u00a0 Unfortunately, it is usually after leaving a trail of destruction and pain in their paths.<\/p>\n<p>There is one form of dogmatic absolutism that has not fallen apart or been discredited.\u00a0 This form is orthodox religion, the king of all dogmatic absolutism.\u00a0 In spite of its disreputable history, it remains alive and healthy.<\/p>\n<p>Before I continue and for the sake of clarity I must note that not every contemporary religion falls into this category.\u00a0 Ongoing religious reformations have yielded non-dogmatic versions.\u00a0 Reform Judaism, liberal Anglicanism and the many others like them are generally benign, even positive influences.\u00a0 I believe that they are misguided about their beliefs in God (and half of the time I don\u2019t think they know what they believe), but they are examples of humanistic theistic religions.\u00a0 Lacking dogmatic absolutism, they produce more good than harm.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a theistic humanist in every sense of the word.\u00a0 We secular humanists can and do make common cause with theistic humanists.\u00a0 Personally, I think that the more they focus on their humanism, the less they will find a need for magical thinking and theistic word games.\u00a0 When I confront them it\u2019s usually because of the \u201ccover\u201d they provide to orthodox religion or the harm they do to critical thinking.\u00a0 But that\u2019s all for a different discussion with a different dialogue partner.<\/p>\n<p>Orthodox religions, on the other hand, which claim to know the will and mind of their gods, have not disintegrated in the aftermath of their many, many failures.\u00a0 They should be as discredited as fascism, communism or eugenics and yet they keep on rolling along.\u00a0 Why?\u00a0 Some theorize that it is because their ultimate promises cannot be disproved.\u00a0 They offer a soul.\u00a0 They offer eternal life.\u00a0 Who can prove false the existence of these things?<\/p>\n<p>Dogmatic absolutism, coupled with its exploitation by the power hungry, has rained down ruination upon humanity.\u00a0 The good news, though, is what I addressed briefly in my last letter.\u00a0 When we place ourselves in nature, understanding how our biological evolution has led to our success as a species, we are able to locate our innate morality.\u00a0 We can abandon dogmatic authority, whether it is fascistic or theistic.\u00a0 We can stop depending upon the \u201cwisdom\u201d of ancient people who did not and could not understand any of this because the world they lived in was completely different than our own.<\/p>\n<p>You wrote about how what we now know about the world displaced us; we are no longer \u201coriented\u201d and do not know where we are (spiritually?) located.\u00a0 In fact, just the opposite is true.\u00a0 We now know exactly where we are and what should be our chief concern.\u00a0 You also point out the evidence of humanity\u2019s cruelty and innate aggression.\u00a0 Like our innate morality, our aggression is\u00a0 also in our capacity to control.\u00a0 You do not deny this, but you throw up your hands and surrender our power to a God that you can\u2019t even assure us exists:<\/p>\n<p>So, even as a construct of control, a MORAL God as an enforcer of a moral order would get us there faster than some sort of rational enlightened system which is totally divorced of the culture, symbols, and webs of meaning which inform most people in the 21st century with the exception of Western Europe.\u00a0 In other words, as a \u201csocial engineer\u201d creative use of religion would still get you where you want to go faster.<\/p>\n<p>Is this the same moral God who said, \u201cIf a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them\u201d (Lev. 20:13)?<\/p>\n<p>Or is it the great enforcer of morality whose moral instruction consisted of this:\u00a0 \u201cHave you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves\u201d (Numbers 31:1).<\/p>\n<p>Perhaps his moral authority can be summed up with this instruction:\u00a0 \u201cNeither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly\u201d (Deut. 7:4-5).<\/p>\n<p>I think, with only three small citations (of the hundreds available to me), I have made my point quite clear.\u00a0 This source of morality is not particularly moral by our standards.\u00a0 And if you argue that these verse are simply a product of their time, then you have already made my case.\u00a0 So, too, if you present a kinder or more compassionate image of God from rabbinic literature.\u00a0 In every instance, God, together with all that he says or does, is a product of the human imagination.\u00a0 Dogmatic theistic absolutists cannot acknowledge this.\u00a0 They grant eternal authority to these words and texts.<\/p>\n<p>Contrast them, if you will, with these excerpts from another text:<\/p>\n<p>\u2026We affirm that moral values derive their source from human experience. Ethics is autonomous and situational needing no theological or ideological sanction. Ethics stems from human need and interest.<\/p>\n<p>\u2026The preciousness and dignity of the individual person is a central humanist value. Individuals should be encouraged to realize their own creative talents and desires.<\/p>\n<p>\u2026To enhance freedom and dignity the individual must experience a full range of civil liberties in all societies. This includes freedom of speech and the press, political democracy, the legal right of opposition to governmental policies, fair judicial process, religious liberty, freedom of association, and artistic, scientific, and cultural freedom.<\/p>\n<p>\u2026The principle of moral equality must be furthered through elimination of all discrimination based upon race, religion, sex, age, or national origin.<\/p>\n<p>These are small excerpts from Humanist Manifesto II.\u00a0 It is not a holy text.\u00a0 It\u2019s not in any way sacred.\u00a0 There was an earlier version and there\u2019s a more recent one, too.<\/p>\n<p>Like the Torah, it was written by human beings.\u00a0 Like the Torah, it is a product of its time.\u00a0 Yet honestly, which would we rather live by?<\/p>\n<p>The webs of meaning you mention are founded upon archaic understandings of the world.\u00a0 The \u201corientation\u201d you write about was accompanied not only by cruelty, but by disease, malnutrition and general misery.\u00a0 All of these were accepted. They were God\u2019s will.\u00a0 Such thinking provided comfort to an impotent humanity.\u00a0 Those days are gone and their philosophies of life should now disappear, too.<\/p>\n<p>Finally, I would like to address your questions about my approach to tradition, including the use of the title rabbi.\u00a0 This has also come up in some of our private conversations.<\/p>\n<p>Like you, I live with certain tensions.\u00a0 I do not hope for or desire any return to pre-scientific times.\u00a0 And I do see value in traditions.\u00a0 But these traditions must meet certain tests.\u00a0 They must be moral.\u00a0 They must be voluntary.\u00a0 They must be acknowledged as the product of the human imagination and as such, they must meet human needs.<\/p>\n<p>With these caveats in mind, I search Jewish traditions for the stories, practices and commitments that will enhance the meaning of modern life.\u00a0 Since Passover is approaching, I\u2019ll use that as an example.<\/p>\n<p>Like other liberal rabbis, most of them theists (even if their theism is ill-defined), I do not regard the Torah as a history book.\u00a0 All of the non-Orthodox rabbinic schools teach the Torah\u2019s stories as legends.\u00a0 This was my approach long before I asserted my non-theism.<\/p>\n<p>So why celebrate?\u00a0 The holiday is part of my culture and history.\u00a0 I\u2019ve celebrated it all of my life and it is central to my identity as a Jew (polls show that it is the most celebrated Jewish holiday).\u00a0 As a Humanistic Jew, I believe that the lesson of Passover is still powerfully meaningful today.\u00a0 There are still people who are in actual slavery.\u00a0 Others do not enjoy full freedom due to the prejudices of the societies in which they live.<\/p>\n<p>Humanistic Jews don\u2019t thank God for freeing us. \u00a0We are merely grateful (just grateful!) that our people placed a value on freedom and we find it highly worthy of celebration.<\/p>\n<p>There are many other rituals and organizational structures that we\u00a0 also preserve.\u00a0 The Society for Humanistic Judaism is organized along similar lines as the Union for Reform Judaism or the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism.\u00a0 We have havurot, congregations and rabbis.\u00a0 We do not seek to overthrow the entire religious project of humanity.\u00a0 We seek to re-orient it away from obeisance to a mythical deity and toward ultimate concern for the well-being of humanity.<\/p>\n<p>I named my blog \u201cThe Atheist Rabbi\u201d because I am an atheist and, quite frankly, to get attention.\u00a0 But I also sub-titled it \u201cA Secular Humanistic Rabbi\u2019s Blog.\u201d\u00a0 I worked hard to earn the title of rabbi and my certificate was signed by at least one non-believer who was on our faculty at HUC.\u00a0 Others among my teachers also had little regard for supernatural conceptions of God.\u00a0 When the younger generation of Reform rabbis began to re-embrace older forms of practice and then of belief, I could see that my days as a Reform rabbi were numbered.\u00a0 I am grateful that there is a Society for Humanistic Judaism to which I could turn.\u00a0 There they take seriously both their Jewish heritage and their humanistic concerns.\u00a0 It is one of many excellent vehicles to share these concerns with the world.<\/p>\n<p>Your \u201csocial engineer\u201d has not succeeded very well.\u00a0 Our vision has barely been given a chance.\u00a0 I say it\u2019s high time to put our ancient texts in their place \u2014 antiquity.\u00a0 They are a lovely literary treasure and should be appreciated for that and for the fact that they provide a window to our past.\u00a0 To continue searching them for eternal values yields mostly ancient prejudices and superstitions.\u00a0 It brings us ongoing conflict between competing religious \u201ctruths.\u201d\u00a0 It produces religious persecution of women, homosexuals, and non-believers.\u00a0 These facts are in the headlines daily.\u00a0 Orthodox religions have utterly failed to improve humanity.\u00a0 So even your utilitarian arguments are not justified by reality.<\/p>\n<p>You ended your letter by asking whether it was acceptable to pray that I am well.\u00a0 Frankly, I am happy for any wishes for my well-being as I am sure that there is no shortage of those who are praying me to hell.\u00a0 In any case, it is always nice for any person to know that he or she is in another\u2019s thoughts.\u00a0 We are social creatures, after all.\u00a0 That\u2019s how we evolved.<\/p>\n<p>I wish you well, too, and I also wish you a happy Passover.<\/p>\n<p>Best,<\/p>\n<p>\u2013Jeff<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>If you\u2019re following the rabbinical dialogue between Rabbi Fred Klein and me then you\u2019ve read his excellent second letter.\u00a0 It was quite challenging.\u00a0 I\u2019ll leave it to the readers to judge whether I\u2019ve been up to the challenge. Once again I want to thank Rabbi Klein for his participation.\u00a0 I believe in the importance of [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2281,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[35],"class_list":["post-491","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-blogentries","tag-rabbinical-dialogue"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>The Rabbinical Dialogue, Exchange #3<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"If you\u2019re following the rabbinical dialogue between Rabbi Fred Klein and me then you\u2019ve read his excellent second letter.\u00a0 It was quite challenging.\u00a0 I\u2019ll\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/04\/the-rabbinical-dialogue-exchange-3.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Rabbinical Dialogue, Exchange #3\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"If you\u2019re following the rabbinical dialogue between Rabbi Fred Klein and me then you\u2019ve read his excellent second letter.\u00a0 It was quite challenging.\u00a0 I\u2019ll\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/theatheistrabbi\/2011\/04\/the-rabbinical-dialogue-exchange-3.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Atheist Rabbi\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2011-04-15T15:30:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Jeffrey L. 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