Toby Morrell a worship director and small groups pastor at his home church, in addition to fronting his bands, Emery and Matt and Toby. \u00a0<\/strong>He is also one of the funniest guys I have talked to in recent history. \u00a0<\/strong>There was no shortage of laughter during our conversation about guys and isolation. \u00a0But what I loved most about our chat was Toby\u2019s desire to be genuine, beyond the typical, Christianese \u201cauthenticity.\u201d \u00a0I think he was definitely the right guy for the subject at hand. \u00a0And what exactly is that subject? \u00a0Well, the fact that so many of us guys exist in a state of giving the Heisman to all those around us, in the spiritual sense. \u00a0We don\u2019t let others in on who we really are, our true selves, warts and all. \u00a0This has left a great many of us in horrible spiritual states. The fact is, we need help from our brothers, and consistent vulnerability in connection with fellow Christians, in order to maintain our faith. \u00a0This conversation should help anyone dealing with isolation or looking to deepen their friendships with their brothers\u2026<\/p>\n Schwab: Give our readers a little bit of your spiritual background.<\/strong><\/p>\n Morrell:<\/strong> My grandfather was the pastor of a very small group\/church\/demonization called the church of God in prophecy.\u00a0 It was hyper southern Baptist, in the sense it was very legalistic.\u00a0 Women didn\u2019t wear jeans.\u00a0 We couldn\u2019t go the movies.\u00a0 There wasn\u2019t any jewelry. It was very works-based. \u00a0The message of most sermons was, essentially, you\u2019d better be careful, or you are going to go hell. \u00a0<\/em>At the same time, it was very charismatic.\u00a0 There would be people speaking in tongues<\/a> and passing out laying on top of pews and placing their hands on hot stoves to prove God\u2019s power, etc. \u00a0It was a wild time.\u00a0 But after a certain point I was just resigned to going to hell, or at least I thought, good Lord, you have beaten all of this into my head and it sounds like I don\u2019t have a chance of getting into heaven.<\/em>\u00a0 Finally, I was like\u2026okay I give up! \u00a0I\u2019m going to hell!<\/em>\u00a0 (laughing)<\/p>\n But there was a lack of authenticity there, because under the surface people just kind of did what they wanted.\u00a0 My family would sneak into the movies on a regular basis.\u00a0 It was basically\u2026don\u2019t get caught, hide your sin.\u00a0<\/em>By the time I reached high school my dad and our whole family got burned out on church.\u00a0 And at that point I started doing my own thing. \u00a0I became a pretty hardcore party-er\u2026smoking weed, drinking, etc.<\/p>\n I didn\u2019t have a plan for college, but it just so happened I went to visit a friend at his school, and he invited me to talk to a guidance counselor. \u00a0They told me to apply.\u00a0 So I did it, and I got in. \u00a0It was very spontaneous. \u00a0I partied my first year, but my second year I had a core group of friends who were praying for me without my knowledge.\u00a0 The same guy who originally invited me to apply to school invited me to an event-to hear an evangelist speak on campus.\u00a0 At the time I had quit smoking pot and drinking and I was trying to quit smoking.\u00a0 My approach was super works-based (still), so I thought, hey, the more bad things I can give up, the closer I will be to God<\/em> (laughing).\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n Now, we just went to go see our friend who was playing worship.\u00a0 I had no intention of being ministered to.\u00a0 But God has a sense of humor-the theme of the night was smashing your \u201csecular\u201d CDs!<\/p>\n Schwab:<\/strong> (laughing).<\/p>\n Morrell:<\/strong> So, here\u2019s what happened, no joke.\u00a0 Everyone brought their CDs. \u00a0There was this gigantic pile in front of the stage and everyone jumped on them together.\u00a0 I rolled my eyes, made fun of everyone, and was ready to leave, when the speaker said, \u201csomeone here is trying to quit smoking.\u201d\u00a0 I thought to myself, I know this drill.\u00a0 He\u2019s going to tell me to stand up, then he is going to pressure me to come to the front of the stage.<\/em>\u00a0 I stood up anyway because I really wanted to quit smoking, and sure enough he invited everyone standing down there.\u00a0 And the only way I can describe it\u2026it was as if two handlebars were on my chest and I was being pulled toward the stage.\u00a0 I said, Lord, I can\u2019t do this<\/em>\u2026But then I felt like I was being told, Come.\u00a0 Now.\u00a0 This is it.<\/em><\/p>\n So there I am standing amidst unbelievable amounts of smashed cd cases, getting saved.<\/p>\n Schwab:<\/strong> (laughing hysterically)<\/p>\n It was just a hilarious moment.\u00a0 I would have loved seeing my own face looking down and around me, getting saved<\/em>.\u00a0 Then, the speaker said, \u201cThe Lord is telling me something.\u201d \u00a0Then, he pointed right at me.\u00a0 There were twenty-five people or so standing there.\u00a0 He singled me out and said, \u201cTonight the decision you made is wonderful and you are going to see thousands of people saved.\u201d \u00a0And I said to myself Good Lord, I was just trying to quit smoking!<\/em><\/p>\n Schwab:<\/strong> (Laughing again). \u00a0That\u2019s amazing. And interesting. \u00a0You touched on something there that I can definitely relate to. \u00a0I think so much of the way our generation defines ourselves in the context of Christianity has to do with the way we react to the church of our parents\u2019 generation. \u00a0My story is similar to yours in so far as I was raised in the church, only it was the Catholic church.\u00a0 I was made to go to mass until I was in high school, but I thought it was completely lame, boring, and stale.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t see God in any of it.\u00a0 I viewed it as a ritual that got in the way of my Sunday mornings, and even my Saturday nights.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t until later when the seeds that were planted (especially by my grandmother, who was very devout) took root, and a group of peers presented Christianity to me in a form I could relate to (at a home bible study).\u00a0 It\u2019s funny, the scripture that says (this is a loose paraphrase), \u201cRaise your children in the ways of the Lord and when they become adults they will not turn from it,\u201d is very true.<\/p>\n Talk a little bit about your role at Mars Hill, your recent move, and your current role in your church.<\/p>\n Morrell:<\/strong> We were living in Charleston, and my wife was working at a large megachurch.\u00a0 She was an administrator and I was doing Emery, when she found out she was pregnant with our second kid. \u00a0That\u2019s when we decided to leave Charleston and move to Missouri to be near her family.\u00a0 Within a week of moving to Missouri a buddy of mine who was head of music at Mars Hill in Seattle approached me to be a worship leader.\u00a0 I really didn\u2019t think I could do worship.\u00a0 I never really related to worship music, or much of Christian music in general.\u00a0 But my friend was persistent and told me I should really pray about it.\u00a0 My wife said the same thing.\u00a0 So I prayed and even fasted for a couple days.\u00a0 After that, I was sitting in my room talking to God and I said, I can\u2019t go do this.\u00a0 I am not that good of a musician and I am just going to let them down.\u00a0 It\u2019s going to be terrible.<\/em> AND At the time I was very close to leaving proper church in favor of a house church.\u00a0 I had been reading some books that had me leading strongly in that direction. So, I felt like taking this job would be hypocritical.\u00a0 Then, in a voice that was nearly audible, I hear, it doesn\u2019t matter if you are the worst worship leader on earth, you are to go to Seattle and do this.\u201d\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n So we moved.\u00a0 And we were there for a year, and I thought we were going to be there for awhile.\u00a0 It was an amazing time.\u00a0 It challenged me.\u00a0 I definitely changed my perspective on orthodox, proper church.\u00a0\u00a0 I see the value, call, vision, and importance of Sunday morning, traditional church.\u00a0 I learned to value the need for teaching, for the gospel to be preached, and the reach that church has.\u00a0 Also, there were many church elders that spoke into my life. \u00a0Then, my wife got pregnant again, and this one was a total surprise. \u00a0We felt, from a financial, as well as a family standpoint, it would be the best thing for us to move back to Missouri.\u00a0 That would enable my wife to be a mother full time, and for me to focus on Emery and my other band, Matt and Toby. \u00a0Then, out of the blue, a buddy of mine called me about a position at his church back in Charleston.\u00a0 The position was worship director and small groups pastor\u2013the exact two things I had been \u201clearning\u201d about previously!\u00a0 I got the job, and we were able to move back to Charleston.<\/p>\n Schwab:\u00a0<\/strong> That\u2019s quite a journey to lead you back to the same place.\u00a0 The next logical question is this:\u00a0 One of the general sentiments of emerging generations is a general disconnection with the corporate church of our parents.\u00a0 A large segment of our generation, while professing belief, have formed theologies and even churches in reaction to the previous one.\u00a0 Why do you think this is, and how had this disconnection contributed to isolation in young adult men?<\/strong><\/p>\n Morrell:<\/strong> I think \u201cattractional church,\u201d while doing some amazing things, has let down the individual Christian by doing everything for us<\/em>.\u00a0<\/strong> I mean, everything is taken care of.\u00a0 You come into the foyer, get your coffee, see a few people, come to your seat, and it\u2019s going to be comfortable.\u00a0 There is air conditioning and perfect lighting.\u00a0 There is a killer band with music played by great musicians with great voices.\u00a0 The music is easy to listen to.\u00a0 There is a dynamic speaker that is amazing.\u00a0 He gives you some scripture, and also some stuff that is applicable to your life.\u00a0 He makes you feel a little better, and tells you God loves you.\u00a0 And you don\u2019t have to do one single thing but (barely) show up.\u00a0 So, if you want to dig deeper, you go to small groups.\u00a0 But that is just a little version of the main service.\u00a0 No one is challenging you.\u00a0 No one is truly being vulnerable.\u00a0 The best speaker dominates the conversation.\u00a0 But, where is the authenticity?\u00a0 Where is the accountability?\u00a0 Where is the point of connection?\u00a0 Where is the vulnerability?<\/p>\n I was listeing to a great podcast the other day, and the woman was talking about vulnerability from a completely secular perspective. \u00a0People don\u2019t put themselves out there because of shame.\u00a0 And fear.\u00a0 If I come to you and say \u201cHey, Andrew, there is something going on in my life, and here it is.\u201d\u00a0 For me to do that, there has to be risk. \u00a0There is the possibility you could reject me.\u00a0 So, because of the fear of shame and rejection, we avoid it.\u00a0 But that actually has a numbing affect on us in every area of our lives.\u00a0 When we push vulnerability away in relationship we also dull\/push away our emotions, our potential joy, and all the other peaks and potential valleys in our lives.\u00a0 We essentially mute everything<\/em>.\u00a0 <\/strong>I think this also happens as a result of the way we do church today, in many ways.<\/p>\n Many Christians and Christian leaders are not open about who we truly are.\u00a0 That\u2019s the disconnect.\u00a0 Why can\u2019t we tell the whole truth? \u00a0The non-Christian doesn\u2019t usually have much to hide.\u00a0 They say, yeah I went out and got drunk last night.\u00a0 And you think\u2026at least I know who I am dealing with.<\/em>\u00a0 Which one do you choose?\u00a0 The one where you know what you are getting, or the guy who plays bass in the church band or who is an un usher, but is doing sinful things in secret?\u00a0 And this is a big reason why many of us have a hard time connecting with church, truly.\u00a0 We would rather know who we are dealing with up front!<\/p>\n Schwab:<\/strong>\u00a0 Authenticity is something that we all crave.\u00a0 That\u2019s not just in terms of spirituality, but it\u2019s also in terms of life.\u00a0 We all want the real deal.\u00a0 Our souls will not be satisfied with anything less.\u00a0 We are talking about being a reactionary generation, it\u2019s easy to turn into the hipsters at the coffee shop who are criticizing everyone for not being \u201cauthentic\u201d like they are.\u00a0 It\u2019s easy to use the flawed form that is the previous generation\u2019s church as an excuse to not adamantly pursue your relationship with God in the context of community. On that note, one of the biggest frustrations I hear from guys these days-including guys who are actually trying to connect, trying to find authentic community-is a difficulty in finding other guys who want to do the same.\u00a0 It\u2019s almost guaranteed that once you start getting \u201creal\u201d you are going to find yourself in the minority.\u00a0 I know many guys who are on full-time staff at churches, yet don\u2019t have any brothers who will \u201cwalk with them.\u201d \u00a0Do you have any insight or advice for guys who fall into this category?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n Morrell:<\/strong> The current church I attend has an organic, family-oriented fee, which I am so thankful for!\u00a0 The small group structure is great, in so far as they don\u2019t build it up to be too idealistic.\u00a0 They encourage everyone to be ok with joining a small group with people you don\u2019t necessarily view as lifelong friends.\u00a0 That is key!\u00a0 It\u2019s difficult at best to build those close relationships within the church, but we have to prioritize our expectations.\u00a0 We have to get over the initial discomfort.\u00a0 It\u2019s ok to be in a group with guys who dress differently or who are into different music than you are or who are maybe a little older or younger!\u00a0 And we have to get over the initial awkwardness of vulnerability.\u00a0 That\u2019s the only way small groups will work.\u00a0 In fact, that\u2019s the only way Christianity works.\u00a0<\/strong> Finally, if we are going to truly follow in Jesus\u2019 footsteps, we have to be available, even if it\u2019s a situation you would normally avoid.\u00a0 For example, recently I had to get my taxes done.\u00a0 It took a long time, to the tune of four hours.\u00a0 And I had to sit in the room with the guy who was preparing my return.\u00a0 He was in his 50\u2019s, and all I wanted to do was get back home to my family or get back to church to finish working.\u00a0 And amidst that, I felt the Lord convicting me about engaging this guy.\u00a0 And we just started talking.\u00a0 And for that moment I ended up having fellowship and community with this guy, and God showed up in the middle of it!\u00a0 My advice would be don\u2019t miss opportunities for fellowship, even if you think it might be crappy.\u00a0 Because you know what?\u00a0 A good percentage of the time it might be-and God will STILL use it in your life!<\/strong><\/p>\n Schwab:\u00a0 You touched on something very important, and that is you don\u2019t have to have a group of guys who share every common interest in order to connect in Christ.<\/strong>\u00a0 There is no reason why one guy who wears skinny jeans and another who wears baggy jeans can\u2019t find common ground in Jesus.\u00a0 I\u2019d say the points in my life where I have had the most vibrant fellowship are with those with whom my primary connection was Jesus, not necessarily our common tastes or interests.\u00a0 A diverse group is a good thing! \u00a0I hosted a tin Soldiers event in Denver recently and we had a very diverse group\u2026different ages, tastes in music, etc.\u00a0 At first, I have to be honest, I thought to myself how is this going to work<\/em>?\u00a0 But once we got rolling it was fantastic.\u00a0 We have so much more in common as believers and as men in faith than we do differences.\u00a0 We have more in common than we think on the issues that matter.<\/strong> \u00a0And on a related note\u2026The concept of accountability is fundamental to vulnerable fellowship.\u00a0 But this concept is a controversial one for us as guys, if we are honest. Some of us have been burned by churches who try to control our lives when we give people too much personal information.\u00a0 I think most of us would rather go it alone than open ourselves up to unhealthy input from others. \u00a0What do you think is a healthy, Biblical approach to accountability?<\/strong><\/p>\n Morrell:<\/strong> I think the idea of telling your deepest, darkest secrets is scary at first.\u00a0 We all have really bad parts of us, but we are also afraid of what will happen if others see those parts.\u00a0 But we shouldn\u2019t be embarrassed because the end result of exposing ourselves, more often than not, results in great things.\u00a0 One of my favorite characters in the Bible is Peter, because he wore his heart on his sleeve.\u00a0 He had such a close friendship with Jesus that he wasn\u2019t afraid to be himself.\u00a0 He was always saying something wild, and even ridiculous, but he had the confidence to know that Christ loved Him despite his flaws.\u00a0 That\u2019s the great thing about the Bible-it doesn\u2019t hold any punches in showing how crappy everyone was!\u00a0 Everyone besides Jesus has real problems.\u00a0 We shouldn\u2019t be afraid of that.\u00a0 But once we open that up and talk about it, it actually gets easier, and there is a trust that develops between ourselves and our brothers.<\/strong>\u00a0 With accountability, specifically, we are telling others to get help\u2026then once its off your chest there is SUCH freedom.\u00a0 Our charge as brothers is to not judge, but to offer love and support within the context of pointing others back to Jesus.\u00a0 Our leaders definitely need to model this better.\u00a0 Guys have a lot on them these days.\u00a0 We have to be good leaders, good with our finances, good husbands, good fathers, spiritual teachers, good multi-taskers, and so forth.\u00a0 There is no way we can do it all by ourselves without support. \u00a0We each are going to have gifts in different areas that we need to share, and we each need to ask for help in our areas of weakness.\u00a0 I need to be able to call on you and rely on you.\u00a0 And I need to be able to be honest about my mistakes. We have a culture in the church that if someone exposes weakness, we pounce on it.\u00a0 So that breeds pretend personas.\u00a0 Instead, we need to build a culture of \u201cThis is where I am, for better or worse.\u201d\u00a0 I think that will go a long way to building better systems of accountability.<\/strong><\/p>\n Schwab:<\/strong> One last question on the subject of accountability.\u00a0 We guys love our man-caves, our personal space, the aspect of our lives that is all our own, our private selves.\u00a0 But this \u201cspace\u201d can become unhealthy, as many guys have developed evil alter egos that are filled with vices.\u00a0 How can guys today navigate the need for personal, private space without leading double lives?<\/strong>\u00a0 How can we encourage integrity and merge the public and private selves while not sacrificing our personal space? \u00a0This is the crucial part of the equation, because when we are alone, isolated, without accountability or connection, we men have a tendency to become villains.\u00a0 This is unique to our gender, I believe.\u00a0 How can we change this, in your opinion?<\/p>\n Morrell:<\/strong> I think when we need alone time, or to recharge, we can\u2019t approach it selfishly.\u00a0<\/strong> When it becomes, \u201cI have worked so hard, I have earned this me-time,\u201d that is where we get into trouble.\u00a0 We need to honor God even more with our private time, and approach it with the mindset of how can I bless others through these minutes?\u00a0 That\u2019s when it will actually be restful and recharging.\u00a0 We need to be intentional about those times, even if it\u2019s just sleeping or reading.\u00a0 We have to say to ourselves\u2026my alone time should be honoring to God and my family<\/em>.\u00a0 We are not entitled to this time, it is a gift, just like everything else in our lives.<\/strong> \u00a0If we do that, we will be much less likely to get sidetracked by the cheerleader photo on the ESPN website, if you know what I mean. \u00a0Instead of just surfing the web for an hour, do something specific with those minutes!<\/p>\n One way to maintain accountability is to let people know about your alone time so you can be more accountable and be prayed for.\u00a0 For example, I can tell my wife what exactly I am planning to do with that hour or two.\u00a0 Or I can let a friend know, \u201cHey, I am going to be updating some stuff online at 10:00 PM tonight, can you text me or pray for me during that time?\u201d \u00a0The more you offer others insight into your private world, the less apt you are to start doing things you know you shouldn\u2019t.\u00a0 In the end, the more you offer insight into your world to those you trust, the more healthy your spiritual state will be.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n The Tin Soldiers is a book for isolated men. \u00a0It\u2019s also a small group discussion stimulator. \u00a0It makes a great gift, even if the guy in your life doesn\u2019t read. \u00a0Follow Toby Morrell on Twitter here<\/a><\/strong>. \u00a0Follow The Tin Soldiers on Twitter here<\/a><\/strong>. \u00a0Follow The Tin Soldiers on Facebook here<\/a><\/strong>. Grab a copy of the book in print here<\/a><\/strong>. \u00a0Grab a copy as an ebook here<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Toby Morrell a worship director and small groups pastor at his home church, in addition to fronting his bands, Emery and Matt and Toby. \u00a0He is also one of the funniest guys I have talked to in recent history. \u00a0There was no shortage of laughter during our conversation about guys and isolation. \u00a0But what I […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1447,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-213","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\n