{"id":1342,"date":"2009-01-28T09:02:39","date_gmt":"2009-01-28T15:02:39","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-23\/"},"modified":"2015-03-13T17:06:14","modified_gmt":"2015-03-13T22:06:14","slug":"comment-of-the-day-23","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/28\/comment-of-the-day-23\/","title":{"rendered":"Comment of the Day"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Scott M points out some of the most significant intellectual problems with the doctrine of Original Sin:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>There are many ways in which this peculiarly Western variation of<br>\nChristian belief distorts the faith. I mentioned one, the fate of<br>\ninfants who die, because that\u2019s something I immediately noticed when I<br>\nbegan turning to Christianity. It\u2019s something that matters deeply to<br>\nme. While the Roman Catholic Church has moved away from limbo, this is<br>\nstill a theological issue. That is also true in most forms of<br>\nProtestantism. Each tradition may have its own way of \u2018dealing\u2019 with<br>\nthis problem (the SBC, for instance, simply declares it not to be a<br>\nproblem out of the blue), but it is a problem. That is not the case and<br>\nhas never been the case in Orthodoxy.<\/p>\n<p>But it strikes much deeper, into the nature of the Incarnation<br>\nitself. And you see this borne out in Western theology. You see, if we<br>\nall have and are guilty through this inherited nature, how was it Jesus<br>\ndidn\u2019t inherit this \u2018sin nature\u2019? Roman Catholics take it back a<br>\ngeneration and came up with the Immaculate Conception of Mary. God<br>\nshielded Mary from inheriting this nature so she could provide the<br>\nperfect womb for Christ. Some strains of Protestantism stick more<br>\nclosely to a more literal \u2018seminal reasons\u2019 line of thought and tie it<br>\nto the semen of the father. They all are trying to address a problem<br>\nthe Orthodox have never had.<\/p>\n<p>Further, it\u2019s a \u2018problem\u2019 that strikes to the heart of our<br>\nsalvation. For if I have this inherited \u2018sin nature\u2019 and Jesus did not,<br>\nthen he and I are not of the same nature. It renders moot the promise<br>\nof Scripture that Jesus fully experienced all that I experience, was<br>\ntempted in every way, yet did not sin. Moreover, as Athanasius aptly<br>\nput it, that which is not assumed is not healed. If Jesus was of a<br>\ndifferent nature than me, I\u2019m still right where I was.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>Fortunately, that is not what Holy Scripture and the Church teach.<br>\nRather, Jesus was fully human in every way that we are human, he<br>\ninherited all the forces that inevitably lead us to sin, yet did not<br>\nsin. In him, fully human in every way and fully divine, we have true<br>\nhope. He is not someone behind whom we hide from God. Rather, we follow<br>\nhim and through his grace and the power of the Spirit, we are able to<br>\nbecome like him. We are truly saved in the deepest sense of the word.<br>\nBut for that to be true, it is critical that Jesus\u2019 human nature truly<br>\nbe the same nature with which we are born \u2014 not something different.<\/p>\n<p>And this continues to play out in the way we then view God,<br>\nespecially in our eschatology. Here, I deeply appreciate the exchange<br>\nN.T. Wright describes have with an Orthodox Archimandrite in the<br>\nSistene Chapel. The Orthodox priest pointed to the scenes on the left<br>\ndepicting aspects of Jesus life and said, \u201cThese I understand.\u201d Then he<br>\npointed to the scenes on the right depicting Moses and the Law and<br>\nsaid, \u201cThese I also understand.\u201d Then he pointed to the judgment scene<br>\nbehind the altar and said, \u201cThis I do not understand.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The distorted way the doctrine of \u2018original sin\u2019 has led many to<br>\nview the human being has in turn distorted the way they view God, the<br>\nway they understand the problem, and the ultimate destination toward<br>\nwhich we are all journeying. It\u2019s a fundamental Western distortion that<br>\nsends threads in many different directions.<\/p>\n<p>For those who want to understand the Orthodox perspective, I believe<br>\nthere is a lot online if you search for \u201cancestral sin\u201d or \u201cancestral<br>\nsin vs. original sin\u201d. Obviously, don\u2019t take everything you run across<br>\nas \u2018gospel\u2019 truth. \ud83d\ude09 For an Orthodox perspective in general, Father<br>\nStephen Freeman\u2019s <a href=\"http:\/\/fatherstephen.wordpress.com\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Glory to God in All Things<\/a> blog is excellent. For<br>\nphilosophical\/theological questions like this, I like Matthew<br>\nGallatin\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/ancientfaith.com\/podcasts\/pilgrims\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Pilgrims from Paradise<\/a>\u201d podcast on Ancient Faith Radio.<\/p>\n<p>You may or may not find that you agree with the Orthodox<br>\nperspective. For me, it was not a question of finding new ideas.<br>\nRather, again and again I find the things I have believed, at least<br>\ndimly or in part, ever since I stumbled into Christianity. However, it<br>\nis a very different perspective to the Western perspective.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Scott M points out some of the most significant intellectual problems with the doctrine of Original Sin: There are many ways in which this peculiarly Western variation of Christian belief distorts the faith. I mentioned one, the fate of infants who die, because that\u2019s something I immediately noticed when I began turning to Christianity. It\u2019s [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[7,39],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1342","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-church","category-theology"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Comment of the Day<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Scott M points out some of the most significant intellectual problems with the doctrine of Original Sin:There are many ways in which this peculiarly\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/28\/comment-of-the-day-23\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" 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