{"id":100,"date":"2011-07-01T14:18:00","date_gmt":"2011-07-01T14:18:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/07\/natural-vs-normative\/"},"modified":"2012-10-13T18:00:12","modified_gmt":"2012-10-13T22:00:12","slug":"natural-vs-normative","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/07\/natural-vs-normative.html","title":{"rendered":"Natural vs Normative"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both; text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cartoonstock.com\/newscartoons\/cartoonists\/tzu\/lowres\/tzun801l.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.cartoonstock.com\/newscartoons\/cartoonists\/tzu\/lowres\/tzun801l.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"284\" height=\"320\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/div>\n<p>I appreciate the Christians weighing in on <a href=\"http:\/\/www.unequally-yoked.com\/2011\/06\/put-your-money-where-your-marriage-is.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">why they oppose gay marriage<\/a> and trying to explain how they think people are harmed. One genre of response has turned up in thread and is fairly widespread, so I\u2019ll try to address it. Anonymous wrote:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Many people are wondering why infertile heterosexual marriages are considered moral and praise worthy while homosexual \u201cmarriages\u201d are not. The reason is that in an infertile heterosexual marriage the sexual organs are, at least, being used for the purpose for which they were created, or if you prefer the purpose for which they evolved. In homosexual sex the sexual organs are abused. Penises were not meant to be rammed in to an anus. Yes, this means oral and anal sodomy are considered immoral even in heterosexual relations. Societies lacking Divine revelation had to formulate moral laws based on what was available to them namely Nature. This is why there are still laws against these kinds of behaviors in some places.<\/p>\n<p>\u2026Animals are not rational creatures so are not expected to follow Natural moral law. Humans should be expected to act according to reason.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>When I read this claim, it sounds like Anonymous is conflating two ideas: Natural Law and the Law of Nature. Before I go on, here comes the caveat: I\u2019m not sure precisely how Christians use these terms, so don\u2019t try and use this distinction in other contexts and don\u2019t complain in the combox that I\u2019ve used them incorrectly (but feel free to suggest better or clearer terms).<\/p>\n<p><strong>Natural Law<\/strong> is normative. It\u2019s the moral law we see as binding on humans and tolerably accessible whether through intuitions or reason or what have you. This is the law <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Romans+2%3A14%2CRomans+2%3A15&amp;version=KJV\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">written on the hearts of man<\/a> \u2014 it is accessible to all (or practically all) people without revelation or belief in a particular god. A Christian wouldn\u2019t hold me to account for missing Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation, since I don\u2019t understand it\u2019s a sin, but they would fault me for committing murder, since I can be assumed to know it is wrong.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Laws of Nature<\/strong> are biases, heuristics, instincts, adaptations and all manner of evolutionary <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Cruft\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">cruft<\/a> that has built up during the genesis of our species. Remember, evolution isn\u2019t survival of the fittest, it\u2019s the propagation of the just fit enough to work (refer back to \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/www.unequally-yoked.com\/2010\/12\/this-is-not-how-evolution-works.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">This is NOT How Evolution Works<\/a>\u201d).<\/p>\n<p>The mechanics of sexual organs falls into the Laws of Nature category for me, so they don\u2019t get a privileged spot in my moral calculus. It may be unnecessary for procreation to put some protuberances in certain orifices, but there\u2019s no great evolutionary justification for enthusiastically bringing together the entrances to our alimentary canals and I don\u2019t hear many people railing against kissing for pleasure.<\/p>\n<p>To convince me that gay sex is morally indefensible (whether as part of a committed relationship or not), you\u2019re going to have to bring the discussion back into the Natural Law side of the debate and tell me more about who it hurts and how. \u00a0Remember, I\u2019ve got major <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Transhumanism\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">transhumanist<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Gnosticism\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">gnostic<\/a> sympathies, so you have a lot of heavy lifting to do to convince me that thwarting some of the inclinations or actions of the body is wrong.<\/p>\n<div class=\"blogger-post-footer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogger.googleusercontent.com\/tracker\/4256452356987023523-3151736753048277471?l=www.unequally-yoked.com\" alt=\"\" width=\"1\" height=\"1\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I appreciate the Christians weighing in on why they oppose gay marriage and trying to explain how they think people are harmed. One genre of response has turned up in thread and is fairly widespread, so I\u2019ll try to address it. Anonymous wrote: Many people are wondering why infertile heterosexual marriages are considered moral and [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":127,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[68,196],"tags":[82,84,85,158,18],"class_list":["post-100","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-epistemologyphilosophy","category-marriage-2","tag-evo-psych","tag-evolution","tag-gay-marriage","tag-natural-law","tag-transhumanism"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Natural vs Normative<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"I appreciate the Christians weighing in on why they oppose gay marriage and trying to explain how they think people are harmed. One genre of response has\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/07\/natural-vs-normative.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Natural vs Normative\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I appreciate the Christians weighing in on why they oppose gay marriage and trying to explain how they think people are harmed. 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