{"id":114,"date":"2011-06-20T10:35:00","date_gmt":"2011-06-20T10:35:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful\/"},"modified":"2012-10-09T10:59:38","modified_gmt":"2012-10-09T14:59:38","slug":"if-you-cant-say-something-helpful","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html","title":{"rendered":"If You Can&#8217;t Say Something Helpful&#8230;"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both; text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/4.bp.blogspot.com\/-5hU5L7V3Wpo\/Tf7ROy15xSI\/AAAAAAAABc4\/WcGkoRC1l-M\/s1600\/choleric.png\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/4.bp.blogspot.com\/-5hU5L7V3Wpo\/Tf7ROy15xSI\/AAAAAAAABc4\/WcGkoRC1l-M\/s1600\/choleric.png\" alt=\"\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/div>\n<p>Sometimes, when I complain about certain kinds of rhetoric used by atheist leaders, I think I\u2019m not being clear enough. \u00a0When I complain about people who are tarred as \u2018angry atheists\u2019 I don\u2019t have a problem with feelings of frustration and urgency \u2014 <a href=\"http:\/\/www.unequally-yoked.com\/2011\/06\/why-and-how-they-hate-us.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">there\u2019s a lot to be upset about<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>So instead getting sucked into condemning anger \u2014 a rhetorical trick that delegitimizes any strongly expressed critique of the status quo \u2014 let\u2019s say I have a problem with choler.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/en.wiktionary.org\/wiki\/yellow_bile\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Choler<\/a> was one of the<a href=\"http:\/\/controversy.wearscience.com\/design\/humors\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"> four humors<\/a>. \u00a0It\u2019s also known as yellow bile and\u00a0biliousness, wrath, and\u00a0irascible\u00a0bad temper are exactly what it was thought to produce.\u00a0 What I\u2019m trying to speak against is the practice of just venting our spleens and then patting ourselves on the back as though we made an impression or any kind of argument at all. \u00a0Let me give an example.<\/p>\n<p>P.Z. Myers is an excellent biologist and is very good at presenting cogent debunkings of anti-evolution arguments, but his confrontational reputation and the attention it draws seems to push him to pick dumber fights. \u00a0I thought one of his recent twitter fights (pasted below) was a puerile waste of time, and then Myers compounded the fault by\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/scienceblogs.com\/pharyngula\/2011\/06\/twitter_skirmish.php\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">promoting\u00a0it to his followers as though he scored a coup<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both; text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/1.bp.blogspot.com\/-sb75U-LvwmU\/Tf7LU9xcaMI\/AAAAAAAABc0\/4QINRE1smNk\/s1600\/pzfight.png\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/1.bp.blogspot.com\/-sb75U-LvwmU\/Tf7LU9xcaMI\/AAAAAAAABc0\/4QINRE1smNk\/s640\/pzfight.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"416\" height=\"640\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/div>\n<p>I\u2019m not posting about Quinn\u2019s tone because I don\u2019t care about it. \u00a0If Christians want to be have unproductive \u00a0fights on twitter, I\u2019ve got no skin in the game. \u00a0As an atheist, I am personally affected by the rhetoric used by the most prominent atheists and the expectations they create.<\/p>\n<p>Although a reply to Quinn\u2019s question was certainly in order, I can\u2019t fathom what the point of the rest of the conversation was. \u00a0I doubt Myers thought that Quinn was being persuaded and the glib, character-limited back and forth doesn\u2019t read as though it\u2019s meant to appeal to fencesitters. \u00a0It seems like Myers is sticking with the fight for the pleasure of getting to call someone stupid in a public forum. \u00a0That kind of indulgence alienates the people who might otherwise be inclined to listen to Myers\u2019s substantive arguments.<\/p>\n<div class=\"blogger-post-footer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blogger.googleusercontent.com\/tracker\/4256452356987023523-6895422382498262687?l=www.unequally-yoked.com\" alt=\"\" width=\"1\" height=\"1\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Sometimes, when I complain about certain kinds of rhetoric used by atheist leaders, I think I\u2019m not being clear enough. \u00a0When I complain about people who are tarred as \u2018angry atheists\u2019 I don\u2019t have a problem with feelings of frustration and urgency \u2014 there\u2019s a lot to be upset about. So instead getting sucked into [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":127,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6,5],"tags":[159],"class_list":["post-114","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-atheism","category-debatetactics","tag-handing-weapons-to-the-enemy"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>If You Can&#039;t Say Something Helpful...<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Sometimes, when I complain about certain kinds of rhetoric used by atheist leaders, I think I&#039;m not being clear enough. \u00a0When I complain about people who\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"If You Can&#039;t Say Something Helpful...\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Sometimes, when I complain about certain kinds of rhetoric used by atheist leaders, I think I&#039;m not being clear enough. \u00a0When I complain about people who\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Unequally Yoked\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2011-06-20T10:35:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2012-10-09T14:59:38+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/4.bp.blogspot.com\/-5hU5L7V3Wpo\/Tf7ROy15xSI\/AAAAAAAABc4\/WcGkoRC1l-M\/s1600\/choleric.png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Leah Libresco\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Leah Libresco\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"2 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html\",\"name\":\"If You Can't Say Something Helpful...\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2011-06-20T10:35:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2012-10-09T14:59:38+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464\"},\"description\":\"Sometimes, when I complain about certain kinds of rhetoric used by atheist leaders, I think I'm not being clear enough. \u00a0When I complain about people who\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"If You Can&#8217;t Say Something Helpful&#8230;\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/\",\"name\":\"Unequally Yoked\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464\",\"name\":\"Leah Libresco\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r\",\"caption\":\"Leah Libresco\"},\"description\":\"Leah is the author of Arriving at Amen and Building the Benedict Option. Her further writing can be found at leahlibresco.com.\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/author\/leahlibresco\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"If You Can't Say Something Helpful...","description":"Sometimes, when I complain about certain kinds of rhetoric used by atheist leaders, I think I'm not being clear enough. \u00a0When I complain about people who","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"If You Can't Say Something Helpful...","og_description":"Sometimes, when I complain about certain kinds of rhetoric used by atheist leaders, I think I'm not being clear enough. \u00a0When I complain about people who","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html","og_site_name":"Unequally Yoked","article_published_time":"2011-06-20T10:35:00+00:00","article_modified_time":"2012-10-09T14:59:38+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/4.bp.blogspot.com\/-5hU5L7V3Wpo\/Tf7ROy15xSI\/AAAAAAAABc4\/WcGkoRC1l-M\/s1600\/choleric.png"}],"author":"Leah Libresco","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Leah Libresco","Est. reading time":"2 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html","name":"If You Can't Say Something Helpful...","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website"},"datePublished":"2011-06-20T10:35:00+00:00","dateModified":"2012-10-09T14:59:38+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464"},"description":"Sometimes, when I complain about certain kinds of rhetoric used by atheist leaders, I think I'm not being clear enough. \u00a0When I complain about people who","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/if-you-cant-say-something-helpful.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"If You Can&#8217;t Say Something Helpful&#8230;"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/","name":"Unequally Yoked","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464","name":"Leah Libresco","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r","caption":"Leah Libresco"},"description":"Leah is the author of Arriving at Amen and Building the Benedict Option. Her further writing can be found at leahlibresco.com.","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/author\/leahlibresco"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/114","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/127"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=114"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/114\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=114"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=114"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=114"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}