{"id":2945,"date":"2012-05-01T11:06:50","date_gmt":"2012-05-01T15:06:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?p=2945"},"modified":"2013-01-03T14:39:21","modified_gmt":"2013-01-03T19:39:21","slug":"ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html","title":{"rendered":"Ok, Let&#8217;s Put Our Heads Between Our Knees and Take a Few Deep Breaths"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\">\n<figure style=\"width: 490px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"http:\/\/cuterthanecoli.wordpress.com\/2012\/03\/29\/crochet-bactierophage\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" title=\"crochet bacteriophage\" src=\"https:\/\/cuterthanecoli.files.wordpress.com\/2012\/03\/picture-231.png?w=490&amp;h=647\" alt=\"\" width=\"490\" height=\"647\"><\/a><figcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Keep Calm and Look at this Bacteriophage (which will never compare you to Hitler)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/p><p>Mark\u2019s got another post up today, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/markshea\/2012\/05\/a-gay-man-i-consider-a-saint.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">profiling a gay friend he greatly admires<\/a>, and I\u2019ve got a few more things I\u2019d like to respond to, but I\u2019m going to take a little break. \u00a0Judging by the comment threads, this hasn\u2019t been a particularly helpful discussion. \u00a0I\u2019ve registered and explained my objection to the Nazi allusions, and I\u2019m going to hold off on following up until I think I\u2019ve got a better strategy for the discussion.<\/p>\n<p>It seems like, to have a conversation about LGBT rights with this readership, it\u2019s necessary to tightly constrain the issue we\u2019re talking about, so there aren\u2019t a lot of non-sequiturs and sprawling rants. \u00a0We\u2019ve had more success discussing <em>only<\/em> the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/02\/gay-marriage-and-male-friendship.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">possible erotization of same-sex friendship<\/a> or<a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/06\/put-your-money-where-your-marriage-is.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"> empirical data on gay marriage that will exist in 20 or so years<\/a>. \u00a0Limiting the discussion to rhetoric didn\u2019t work because people felt it made sense to bring <em>anything<\/em> into the conversation to explain why their hyperbolic language was necessary.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve never banned anyone from commenting at Unequally Yoked, and I don\u2019t plan to start, but I did notice a problem during these discussions where a couple people were dominating the threads by making <em>really<\/em> hyperbolic claims (even given that we started at Godwin\u2019s Law). \u00a0I really want to emphasize that <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2011\/08\/commenting-reminder.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">it\u2019s fine to walk away from a fight<\/a><\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>No one was going to believe those claims were true if no one replied to them. \u00a0I made this mistake a couple of times, and I don\u2019t want to see our often productive discussions derailed because everyone thinks it\u2019s most urgent to reply to the craziest person in the thread. \u00a0It\u2019s a lot better to respond to the <em>sanest <\/em>person you disagree with and work your way up from there as time and blood pressure permits.<\/p>\n<p>So, while we\u2019re taking a breather, I think we deserve something pretty to relax with. \u00a0Here\u2019s 30,000 tons of sodium being exploded by exposure to water (<a href=\"http:\/\/io9.com\/5888324\/watch-30000-pounds-of-sodium-explode-in-a-frozen-lake\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">via i09<\/a>).<\/p>\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"The Disposal of Sodium, 1947 Washington State\" width=\"500\" height=\"375\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/HY7mTCMvpEM?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Hmm, a little better, but I\u2019m still feeling a little worn down. \u00a0Let\u2019s try <a href=\"http:\/\/lesswrong.com\/lw\/mq\/beautiful_math\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">something from Less Wrong<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The joy of mathematics is inventing mathematical objects, and then noticing that the mathematical objects that <em>you just created<\/em> have all sorts of wonderful properties that you never intentionally built into them. It is like building a toaster and then realizing that your invention also, for some unexplained reason, acts as a rocket jetpack and MP3 player.<\/p>\n<p>Numbers, according to our best guess at history, have been invented and reinvented over the course of time. (Apparently some artifacts from 30,000 BC have marks cut that look suspiciously like tally marks.) But I doubt that a single one of the human beings who <em>invented counting<\/em> visualized the employment they would provide to generations of mathematicians. Or the excitement that would someday surround Fermat\u2019s Last Theorem, or the factoring problem in RSA cryptography\u2026 and yet these are as implicit in the definition of the natural numbers, as are the first and second difference tables implicit in the sequence of squares.<\/p>\n<p>This is what creates the impression of a mathematical universe that is \u201cout there\u201d in Platonia, a universe which humans are <em>exploring<\/em> rather than <em>creating<\/em>. Our definitions teleport us to various locations in Platonia, but we don\u2019t create the surrounding environment. It seems this way, at least, because we don\u2019t remember creating all the wonderful things we find. The inventors of the natural numbers teleported to Countingland, but did not create it, and later mathematicians spent centuries exploring Countingland and discovering all sorts of things no one in 30,000 BC could begin to imagine.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Ah, that\u2019s the stuff.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Mark\u2019s got another post up today, profiling a gay friend he greatly admires, and I\u2019ve got a few more things I\u2019d like to respond to, but I\u2019m going to take a little break. \u00a0Judging by the comment threads, this hasn\u2019t been a particularly helpful discussion. \u00a0I\u2019ve registered and explained my objection to the Nazi allusions, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":127,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5,4],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2945","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-debatetactics","category-housekeeping"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Ok, Let&#039;s Put Our Heads Between Our Knees and Take a Few Deep Breaths<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Mark&#039;s got another post up today, profiling a gay friend he greatly admires, and I&#039;ve got a few more things I&#039;d like to respond to, but I&#039;m going to take\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Ok, Let&#039;s Put Our Heads Between Our Knees and Take a Few Deep Breaths\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Mark&#039;s got another post up today, profiling a gay friend he greatly admires, and I&#039;ve got a few more things I&#039;d like to respond to, but I&#039;m going to take\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Unequally Yoked\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2012-05-01T15:06:50+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2013-01-03T19:39:21+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/cuterthanecoli.files.wordpress.com\/2012\/03\/picture-231.png?w=490&amp;h=647\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Leah Libresco\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Leah Libresco\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html\",\"name\":\"Ok, Let's Put Our Heads Between Our Knees and Take a Few Deep Breaths\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2012-05-01T15:06:50+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-01-03T19:39:21+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464\"},\"description\":\"Mark's got another post up today, profiling a gay friend he greatly admires, and I've got a few more things I'd like to respond to, but I'm going to take\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Ok, Let&#8217;s Put Our Heads Between Our Knees and Take a Few Deep Breaths\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/\",\"name\":\"Unequally Yoked\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464\",\"name\":\"Leah Libresco\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r\",\"caption\":\"Leah Libresco\"},\"description\":\"Leah is the author of Arriving at Amen and Building the Benedict Option. Her further writing can be found at leahlibresco.com.\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/author\/leahlibresco\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Ok, Let's Put Our Heads Between Our Knees and Take a Few Deep Breaths","description":"Mark's got another post up today, profiling a gay friend he greatly admires, and I've got a few more things I'd like to respond to, but I'm going to take","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Ok, Let's Put Our Heads Between Our Knees and Take a Few Deep Breaths","og_description":"Mark's got another post up today, profiling a gay friend he greatly admires, and I've got a few more things I'd like to respond to, but I'm going to take","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html","og_site_name":"Unequally Yoked","article_published_time":"2012-05-01T15:06:50+00:00","article_modified_time":"2013-01-03T19:39:21+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/cuterthanecoli.files.wordpress.com\/2012\/03\/picture-231.png?w=490&amp;h=647"}],"author":"Leah Libresco","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Leah Libresco","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html","name":"Ok, Let's Put Our Heads Between Our Knees and Take a Few Deep Breaths","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website"},"datePublished":"2012-05-01T15:06:50+00:00","dateModified":"2013-01-03T19:39:21+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464"},"description":"Mark's got another post up today, profiling a gay friend he greatly admires, and I've got a few more things I'd like to respond to, but I'm going to take","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/ok-lets-put-our-heads-between-our-knees-and-take-a-few-deep-breaths.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Ok, Let&#8217;s Put Our Heads Between Our Knees and Take a Few Deep Breaths"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/","name":"Unequally Yoked","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464","name":"Leah Libresco","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r","caption":"Leah Libresco"},"description":"Leah is the author of Arriving at Amen and Building the Benedict Option. Her further writing can be found at leahlibresco.com.","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/author\/leahlibresco"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2945","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/127"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2945"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2945\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2945"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2945"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2945"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}