{"id":3101,"date":"2012-05-18T16:17:11","date_gmt":"2012-05-18T20:17:11","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?p=3101"},"modified":"2013-01-09T11:35:09","modified_gmt":"2013-01-09T16:35:09","slug":"remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html","title":{"rendered":"Remember that chat we had about Nazi analogies?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"
This kitten will be the only thing compared to Hitler in the comments if you know what\u2019s good for you<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/p>

The post was \u201cIt\u2019s hard for me to hear you over the sound of your Nazi analogies<\/a>\u201d and the comment thread was\u2026 err\u2026 frustrating<\/em>, so I\u2019m not advising you revive it. \u00a0But there\u2019s been a positive\u00a0development: Mark Shea has decided to stop using the phrase \u201cgay brownshirts\u201d<\/a> (with more comment from him here<\/a>).<\/p>\n

We didn\u2019t exactly come to\u00a0consensus\u00a0(he and I still definitely disagree on whether the comparison is accurate), but we can pretty much agree it does bupkis for dialogue. \u00a0I want to thank him for making it easier for us to fight. \u00a0Putting aside inflammatory language doesn\u2019t mean lowering the stakes of an argument, it just means tightening your focus to your real disagreement, instead of getting aggrieved over phrasing.<\/p>\n

So what do Mark and I still disagree on here? \u00a0Well, a lot of things probably, but the most relevant seem to be:<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. How much responsibility does a movement have for the actions of anonymous vandals, and when should it or affiliated individuals apologize for their crimes? <\/strong>The Sierra Club doesn\u2019t apologize or even bother acknowledging every act of ecoterrorism, and that\u2019s about how I feel about my obligation to comment on vandals who smash windows of churches that oppose gay marriage. \u00a0Not only do I not have any authority over these guys, I don\u2019t even know who they are, since they haven\u2019t been caught, so I\u2019m not addressing them, I\u2019m just mentioning again that I think vandalism is bad tactics and bad ethics.<\/li>\n
  2. Are all acts of vandalism-as-intimidation\/anger equivalent?<\/strong> The reason I object to Mark\u2019s\u00a0Kristallnacht<\/em> references is that I think there\u2019s a huge difference in the significance of the vandalism and the extent to which it portends future violence. \u00a0These are isolated vandals, not, you know, a paramilitary group wearing brownshirts or any other kind of uniform that makes existential threats and has the power to carry them out.<\/li>\n
  3. Various other things mostly related to whether homosexuality is morally neutral<\/strong>.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    It\u2019s easier to have any of those conversations if you don\u2019t give the other side an excuse to tune out right in the post title, so I\u2019m really pleased Mark made this change. \u00a0I understand that sometimes people want to use hyperbolic language to \u2018vent\u2019 or don\u2019t intend to a conversation to be read outside their circle. \u00a0Obviously the open nature of the internet makes that bad tactics, but I think it\u2019s bad for us, even when we do it in private.<\/p>\n

    I\u2019m really opposed to the idea that we\u2019re ever entitled <\/em>to our anger or our hate<\/a>. \u00a0It\u2019s one thing to need privacy to be hurt and vulnerable, but I\u2019m doubtful that we can ever really burn off anger without feeding it or denying a little of our own agency and responsibility. \u00a0A while ago, I found this George Will quote<\/a> though a commenter\u2019s blog<\/a>, and I heartily endorse the sentiment:<\/p>\n

    The historian Macaulay famously said that the Puritans opposed bearbaiting not because it gave pain to the bears but because it gave pleasure to the spectators. The Puritans were right: Some pleasures are contemptible because they are coarsening. They are not merely private vices, they have public consequences in driving the culture\u2019s downward spiral.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

    The post was \u201cIt\u2019s hard for me to hear you over the sound of your Nazi analogies\u201d and the comment thread was\u2026 err\u2026 frustrating, so I\u2019m not advising you revive it. \u00a0But there\u2019s been a positive\u00a0development: Mark Shea has decided to stop using the phrase \u201cgay brownshirts\u201d (with more comment from him here). We didn\u2019t […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":127,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5,48],"tags":[86],"class_list":["post-3101","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-debatetactics","category-morality-in-practice","tag-inculcating-morality"],"yoast_head":"\nRemember that chat we had about Nazi analogies?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The post was "It\u2019s hard for me to hear you over the sound of your Nazi analogies" and the comment thread was... err... frustrating, so I'm not advising\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Remember that chat we had about Nazi analogies?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"The post was "It\u2019s hard for me to hear you over the sound of your Nazi analogies" and the comment thread was... err... frustrating, so I'm not advising\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Unequally Yoked\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2012-05-18T20:17:11+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2013-01-09T16:35:09+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/i11.photobucket.com\/albums\/a160\/Billanderson\/kitler289.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Leah Libresco\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Leah Libresco\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html\",\"name\":\"Remember that chat we had about Nazi analogies?\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2012-05-18T20:17:11+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-01-09T16:35:09+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464\"},\"description\":\"The post was \\\"It\u2019s hard for me to hear you over the sound of your Nazi analogies\\\" and the comment thread was... err... frustrating, so I'm not advising\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Remember that chat we had about Nazi analogies?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/\",\"name\":\"Unequally Yoked\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464\",\"name\":\"Leah Libresco\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r\",\"caption\":\"Leah Libresco\"},\"description\":\"Leah is the author of Arriving at Amen and Building the Benedict Option. Her further writing can be found at leahlibresco.com.\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/author\/leahlibresco\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Remember that chat we had about Nazi analogies?","description":"The post was \"It\u2019s hard for me to hear you over the sound of your Nazi analogies\" and the comment thread was... err... frustrating, so I'm not advising","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Remember that chat we had about Nazi analogies?","og_description":"The post was \"It\u2019s hard for me to hear you over the sound of your Nazi analogies\" and the comment thread was... err... frustrating, so I'm not advising","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html","og_site_name":"Unequally Yoked","article_published_time":"2012-05-18T20:17:11+00:00","article_modified_time":"2013-01-09T16:35:09+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/i11.photobucket.com\/albums\/a160\/Billanderson\/kitler289.jpg"}],"author":"Leah Libresco","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Leah Libresco","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html","name":"Remember that chat we had about Nazi analogies?","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website"},"datePublished":"2012-05-18T20:17:11+00:00","dateModified":"2013-01-09T16:35:09+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464"},"description":"The post was \"It\u2019s hard for me to hear you over the sound of your Nazi analogies\" and the comment thread was... err... frustrating, so I'm not advising","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2012\/05\/remember-that-chat-we-had-about-nazi-analogies.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Remember that chat we had about Nazi analogies?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/","name":"Unequally Yoked","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464","name":"Leah Libresco","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r","caption":"Leah Libresco"},"description":"Leah is the author of Arriving at Amen and Building the Benedict Option. Her further writing can be found at leahlibresco.com.","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/author\/leahlibresco"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3101","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/127"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3101"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3101\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3101"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3101"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3101"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}